Ammonia in INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS

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First off, I'll just say I'm one sad fish dad. One by one my fish and corals are dying. It's my first reef and my 5 fish were buddies for 2 years. Not a single death until this week.

INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS crashed my reef with ammonia. I didn't believe it at first but the tests feel conclusive.

The picture with 2 tubes:
Left: RODI+salt mix (from a pitcher of water with a drop of AmmoLock)
Right: RODI+salt mix

The picture with 1 tube:
Just RODI

Is it in my bucket? Nope, I tested it with a clean pitcher, exact same result. Nothing else touches the water prior to testing.

I have 2 boxes of mix that were ordered several months apart. One brand new, the other about 4 months old. They BOTH produced the same result (as seen in the pic).

All of the tests were done to water that was tank-ready, salinity and temp on par. I'm happy I didn't dump it into the tank but that also mean I'm just letting it die until I get new salt first thing tomorrow. I really hope AmmoLock and bacteria additives can save what little is left (1 clown and a few frags).

My tank is currently testing better than the right tube and worse than the left (forgot to take a photo but it's somewhat irrelevant in this thread).

My question is, how is it possible INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS could produce 0.7ppm ammonia seawater? They're just selling poison? Is that not the point when doing a water change, to remove bad stuff while introducing good stuff?

It was traumatic to watch it crash after enjoying it to the max, stuck in a small apartment downtown during a pandemic. However I realize other reefers have incurred much bigger losses and my heart goes out to anyone who has to go through it.

168426979_3789554974446868_3184096659993372410_n.png 169469175_943549413142283_754375814307983494_n.png
 

brandon429

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I’ll counter disagree based on this: 100% of the anti qt crew has no stickies, work threads, no patterns for claims, nothing, in this forum and not one iota of turnaround work is shown using the method without qt and fallow. Literally it’s all self testimony, but to see an ordered set of options we can click:




notice what’s missing. Everybody has alternate ideas, but where the real work is being done...



also factoring, this op’s tank couldn’t possibly be more opposite than yours in age, stability, feeding quality, base support systems, and ten other factors, crypto by July is coming. And then more fish bought to replace like these prior, and then in October six new replacements





we can link here absolutely any link or location on the web though to show non fallow non qt performance for the masses. It’ll have sixteen cures in the first few pages just like fallow and qt do above.

six + folks are going to vehemently disagree over my fish disease link and redo, and their own tanks will be the focus it will never, ever, ever be a link of other people’s diseased fish they fixed, like is being done by Jay right now in the linked forum, prediction is set.




fish disease is the primary causative in this tank so far, corals look the same as they have from page one when it was under voltage and uncontrolled ammonia.


there indeed needs to be a better way found and documented that qt and fallow it’s harsh. I myself don’t keep marine fish but as a pattern watcher I’m certain we don’t have any workable roadmaps using the alternate means. All examples are master reef tanks...not common reef tanks those need the ordered steps linked above.
 
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NeonRabbit221B

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You claim above that this was a fish disease issue is just as baseless as when i claimed it was an ammonia issue. its 100% an assumption.

Just as the hobby swung toward dry rock and is returning to live rock I think we will see another swing back to non-QT and a focus on feeding. By definition we wouldn't have work threads if our fish were not dying so I fail to see how the lack of stickies indicates that we have issues and our tanks are doomed. Another false assumption without data...
 
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Brew12

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I’ll counter disagree based on this: 100% of the anti qt crew has no stickies, work threads, no patterns for claims, nothing, in this forum and not one iota of turnaround work is shown using the method without qt and fallow. Literally it’s all self testimony, but to see what the public can use we can click:


re first twenty pages.

notice what’s missing. Everybody has alternate ideas, but where the real work is being done...



also factoring, this op’s tank couldn’t possibly be more opposite than yours in age, stability, feeding quality, base support system and ten other factors, crypto by July is coming. And then more fish bought to replace like these prior, and then in October six new replacements
There is plenty of evidence that people QT'ing and going fallow lose fish on a regular basis. My tank isn't the exception, it is the rule among reefers I know. I stopped QT'ing everything because my loses were much higher than all but one reefer in my area. He was the other one who was QT'ing everything. And I stopped QT'ing when my current system was a year old, not exactly a crazy mature system.
Have you ever calculated what the success rate is among people who QT everything? I did, and unless you stick with damsels the loss rate is over 50%. A very well known, respected, and popular community member had losses of over 75% when trying to open an online store for pre-treated fish. Had to shut his entire storefront down for months trying to recover. Of course, that never makes the forums.
And for the record, even your cycling posts are all self testimony. What scientific work has been done to verify the fish that survive didn't have ammonia damage to their gills? It doesn't exist. It's no different than those of us who don't QT and have improved fish survival rates. And yes, there are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of build threads of successful tanks on here from people who don't QT. Most of those members never go to the Disease section of the forum because there is no need. Using a thread in the disease section is like going to a hospital to try and determine how healthy a population is. You would think that 90%+ of the population was sick with something if you ignored the people who weren't going to the hospital because they were healthy.

Cryptocaryon Irritans is a parasite, not a disease. It only becomes a disease when the fishes immune system is compromised and allows that parasite to harm the fish. It is similar to how people are literally covered with potentially harmful bacteria but they rarely make us sick without a trigger.
 
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brandon429

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Need link

the fish disease forum has zero problems producing pattern links for their claims. this is always the case with non qt offers.
 
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Parker Kufel

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First off, I'll just say I'm one sad fish dad. One by one my fish and corals are dying. It's my first reef and my 5 fish were buddies for 2 years. Not a single death until this week.

INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS crashed my reef with ammonia. I didn't believe it at first but the tests feel conclusive.

The picture with 2 tubes:
Left: RODI+salt mix (from a pitcher of water with a drop of AmmoLock)
Right: RODI+salt mix

The picture with 1 tube:
Just RODI

Is it in my bucket? Nope, I tested it with a clean pitcher, exact same result. Nothing else touches the water prior to testing.

I have 2 boxes of mix that were ordered several months apart. One brand new, the other about 4 months old. They BOTH produced the same result (as seen in the pic).

All of the tests were done to water that was tank-ready, salinity and temp on par. I'm happy I didn't dump it into the tank but that also mean I'm just letting it die until I get new salt first thing tomorrow. I really hope AmmoLock and bacteria additives can save what little is left (1 clown and a few frags).

My tank is currently testing better than the right tube and worse than the left (forgot to take a photo but it's somewhat irrelevant in this thread).

My question is, how is it possible INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS could produce 0.7ppm ammonia seawater? They're just selling poison? Is that not the point when doing a water change, to remove bad stuff while introducing good stuff?

It was traumatic to watch it crash after enjoying it to the max, stuck in a small apartment downtown during a pandemic. However I realize other reefers have incurred much bigger losses and my heart goes out to anyone who has to go through it.

168426979_3789554974446868_3184096659993372410_n.png 169469175_943549413142283_754375814307983494_n.png
I use Instant Ocean and no problems for me. If it really is the salt for you I wish you the best of luck and maybe it is just a bad batch. I’ve been using for the last year and a half.
 
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brandon429

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most salts will mix up to hundredths ppm free ammonia its very common. articles from back in the 2000s have mentioned it

our reefs absorb it like a shock absorber system, same when a fish dies and you can't get it out. we tracked out complete tangs left to degrade inside rock work on seneye and the meter never moved off thousandths, an entire fish vs the hundredths ppm from salt. that w help to eliminate this salt here as any sort of causative at all.

we speculate on much here, but none for the salt. I am 100% sure since page one his salt had nothing to do with anything mentioned.
 
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brandon429

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my calls are based on links and prediction outcomes, and I think linkless claims run the hobby ninefold and most online peers sell each other on all kinds of guesstimates and retail purchase loop circles.

to get peroxide, pico reefs, sand rinsing, live rock skip cycling into common discussions imagine the pushback from the linkless. when the linkless were forum mods at other sites, a ban occured when discussing anything that goes against the grain of those whose entire reefing world is their own tanks.

its fair to say I work about 99% online with others reefs, and collect the outcomes. at least its not a flippant sort of claims factory... these are honest pattern relays and its nice to get to click the places am relaying from

I always want that in return. in nineteen pages we have how many alternate views to click? Ya'll make the quick claims :)

only patterns from those willing to forge out some links made headway in the controversial subjects last couple decades and the web is just littered with work threads and patterning on the subjects.


all searches for no qt disease controls lead to Pauls tank only :)

why no work threads and patterning from you on fish disease control, you post passionately about it using nobody's tank as an example, only your own?

Guide a diseased tank into good status, post that link. If someone wants to move their ten thousand dollar reef to a new home you know we can pull that off based on patterned links already...this method of thread proofing works wonders. You make one then post it.




*I also know there's truth in the non qt approach. Paul isn't making up his ability, neither is atoll neither is Brew


They simply need to venture out and pattern their claims into practice. Guess what forum I'd like them to start in
 
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iMi

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Very interesting thread. I am confident it’s not the salt. Something is fundamentally wrong here. This is a two-year old reef, yet it looks like it’s two-month old at best. Relatively low volume of rock, deep sand bed, canister filter and heavy bio load.

What’s inside the canister filter?

Could the problem be low oxygen saturation?

It’s probably a combination of issues.
 
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allsite

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I mentioned it on Friday, but haven't seen a response. Have you checked to see if you have a chloramine issue? If you aren't on a well and your local utility uses chloramine it can make it through a RODI system, still show as 0 conductivity, and manifests itself as ammonia in our supposedly pure water.
Interesting. Could you recommend a test for chloramine? FYI the tank continues to yield an off the scale ammonia test. I think ammolock completely obliterates the ability to test ammonia to the extent you don’t even know what you’re looking at in terms of color comparison. RedSea kit turns dark blue...
 
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Very interesting thread. I am confident it’s not the salt. Something is fundamentally wrong here. This is a two-year old reef, yet it looks like it’s two-month old at best. Relatively low volume of rock, deep sand bed, canister filter and heavy bio load.

What’s inside the canister filter?

Could the problem be low oxygen saturation?

It’s probably a combination of issues.
Lots of Marine Pure, floss, ceramic rings, carbon and purigen. You’ve joined the club of people that don’t think the tank looks 2 years old. Lack of colalline and overall cleanliness likely gives that impression.

Hard to say what the problem is/was, but my process for maintaining SG was way off. I now have a floating high precision hydrometer installed into plastic rings/suction cups, what a life saver. I’m dialing it in using a tea cup, night and day difference.

I’ve also started curing more rock but it’s going to be a while.
 
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Malcontent

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Interesting. Could you recommend a test for chloramine? FYI the tank continues to yield an off the scale ammonia test. I think ammolock completely obliterates the ability to test ammonia to the extent you don’t even know what you’re looking at in terms of color comparison. RedSea kit turns dark blue...

This is probably the best option that doesn't cost $300+:

 
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Brew12

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Interesting. Could you recommend a test for chloramine? FYI the tank continues to yield an off the scale ammonia test. I think ammolock completely obliterates the ability to test ammonia to the extent you don’t even know what you’re looking at in terms of color comparison. RedSea kit turns dark blue...
The easiest way, imo, is just to call your local water utility and ask them if they add chloramine. I "think" it will show up as chlorine using a simple pool test strip but I'm not sure.

I've never used Ammolock so I know nothing about it. I have used Seachem Prime. Prime doesn't impact the ammonia tests too terribly much and still allows bacteria to process the ammonia. Just need to re-dose it every 3 days.
 
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HomebroodExotics

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my calls are based on links and prediction outcomes, and I think linkless claims run the hobby ninefold and most online peers sell each other on all kinds of guesstimates and retail purchase loop circles.

to get peroxide, pico reefs, sand rinsing, live rock skip cycling into common discussions imagine the pushback from the linkless. when the linkless were forum mods at other sites, a ban occured when discussing anything that goes against the grain of those whose entire reefing world is their own tanks.

its fair to say I work about 99% online with others reefs, and collect the outcomes. at least its not a flippant sort of claims factory... these are honest pattern relays and its nice to get to click the places am relaying from

I always want that in return. in nineteen pages we have how many alternate views to click? Ya'll make the quick claims :)

only patterns from those willing to forge out some links made headway in the controversial subjects last couple decades and the web is just littered with work threads and patterning on the subjects.


all searches for no qt disease controls lead to Pauls tank only :)

why no work threads and patterning from you on fish disease control, you post passionately about it using nobody's tank as an example, only your own?

Guide a diseased tank into good status, post that link. If someone wants to move their ten thousand dollar reef to a new home you know we can pull that off based on patterned links already...this method of thread proofing works wonders. You make one then post it.




*I also know there's truth in the non qt approach. Paul isn't making up his ability, neither is atoll neither is Brew


They simply need to venture out and pattern their claims into practice. Guess what forum I'd like them to start in

Wouldn’t their list of living fish be the pattern you are looking for?
 
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KStatefan

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Interesting. Could you recommend a test for chloramine? FYI the tank continues to yield an off the scale ammonia test. I think ammolock completely obliterates the ability to test ammonia to the extent you don’t even know what you’re looking at in terms of color comparison. RedSea kit turns dark blue...

 
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brandon429

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this post happens fifty times a day for 200 pages. pros needed, non qt pros.
 
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Update: Today I tested RedSea Coral Pro salt for ammonia. 100% yellow (not at all green) reading. This is the first of such clear readings I've measured since the beginning of this thread. Instant Ocean fresh mix reads about 0.4ppm. It's clear which salt I'll be using going forward.
 
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Possible clue: I notice my last remaining snail looks filthy. It's usually purple and now looks coated in dirt. I think this may have happened prior to the tank crash but I'm not certain.
 
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