Ammonia removal

[mattb2989]

So with the previous posts that prime doesnt do anything for ammonia. Api aqua essentials the ingredients for this have they been found to reduce ammonia? Or is it just another wild claim? @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[CasperOe]

Are you using tap water for your reef tank since you're looking into this?

According to the manufacturer, it instantly removes toxic ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels in freshwater, saltwater and planted aquariums.

Whether there's any evidence to suggest it, that's a better question

 

[exnisstech]

Are you using tap water for your reef tank since you're looking into this?

Kinda what I was wondering since ammonia should not be a concern except during a new cycle. Even then I wouldn't add anything to remove or neutralize it since that would prevent the cycle

 

[mattb2989]

Kinda what I was wondering since ammonia should not be a concern except during a new cycle. Even then I wouldn't add anything to remove or neutralize it since that would prevent the cycle

Hi mate no its just during qt. Running no bio filtration in there.

 

[exnisstech]

Hi mate no its just during qt. Running no bio filtration in there.

Gotcha. Didn't think about that as I typically use water changes to keep ammonia down in QT but I run a hob with a seeded sponge that probably helps.

 

[mattb2989]

Gotcha. Didn't think about that as I typically use water changes to keep ammonia down in QT but I run a hob with a seeded sponge that probably helps.

Yes. Im just doing httm and the wife wont let me do a full blown qt right before xmas. In a 10 gal tank with a small mag foxface feeding lightly i shouldnt have any issues with ammonia but its better to be safe than sorry. Just saw the api product in lfs and wandered if its ingredients actually done anything for ammonia

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The third ingredient on the sds is what I call hydroxymethanesulfonate. It is proposed to react with ammonia in some fashion, possibly making aminomethanesulfonate. I don’t know how well it actually works, but I think @taricha and others may have tested it in some fashion and did not see effectiveness.

This is from an article of mine;

Treatments for Elevated Ammonia: Hydroxymethanesulfonate

---

Various types of compounds are used in commercial products to bind ammonia in marine aquaria. One is hydroxymethanesulfonate (HOCH2SO3-). It is a known ammonia binder16 patented for aquarium use by John F. Kuhns17 and sold as Amquel by Kordon and ClorAm-X by Reed Mariculture, among others.

Ammonia's reaction with hydroxymethanesulfonate is mechanistically complicated, possibly involving decomposition to formaldehyde and reformation to the product aminomethanesulfonate (shown below).16 The simplified overall reaction is believed to be:

NH3 + HOCH2SO3- à H2NCH2SO3- + H2O

What ultimately happens to the aminomethanesulfonate in a marine or reef aquarium is not well established, but it does appear to be significantly less toxic than ammonia, and more than likely it is processed by bacteria into other compounds.

Marineland Bio-Safe claims to contain sodium hydroxymethanesulfinic acid (HOCH2SO2-). I do not know if that is a typographical error, or if Marineland really uses this slightly different compound.

Note: products containing hydroxymethanesulfonate hamper the ability to test for ammonia when using certain types of test kits (see above). Presumably, the H2NCH2SO3- formed is still reactive with the Nessler reagents, even though it is not ammonia.

 

[mattb2989]

@Randy Holmes-Farley thanks for that buddy. So in your expert opinion, has it got a better chance of detoxifying ammonia than prime?

 

[Dan_P]

The third ingredient on the sds is what I call hydroxymethanesulfonate. It is proposed to react with ammonia in some fashion, possibly making aminomethanesulfonate. I don’t know how well it actually works, but I think @taricha and others may have tested it in some fashion and did not see effectiveness.

This is from an article of mine;

Treatments for Elevated Ammonia: Hydroxymethanesulfonate

---

Various types of compounds are used in commercial products to bind ammonia in marine aquaria. One is hydroxymethanesulfonate (HOCH2SO3-). It is a known ammonia binder16 patented for aquarium use by John F. Kuhns17 and sold as Amquel by Kordon and ClorAm-X by Reed Mariculture, among others.

Cloram-X also fails to show any ammonia reduction using the same protocol that demonstrated Prime does not affect ammonia concentration.

 

[taricha]

right. What Dan said.

In a 10 gal tank with a small mag foxface feeding lightly i shouldnt have any issues with ammonia but its better to be safe than sorry.

If a quarantine tank is the application, then a bottle of Fritz bacteria is very quick, and the ammonia control is completely verifiable.
People also have used the Fritz in copper medicated tanks so it seems able to handle that without too much issue.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley thanks for that buddy. So in your expert opinion, has it got a better chance of detoxifying ammonia than prime?

I’m not sure if it is possible to have less chance than Prime of detoxifying ammonia, but I’ll defer to the folks who ran the tests.

The only caveat I can see is whether the products tested actually contained the claimed chemical at an appropriate concentration , so I would be a little cautious to say the chemical cannot work, as opposed to the specific product tested doesn’t.

After all, if the products truly do not work, why even bother including them at all?

 

[MnFish1]

So with the previous posts that prime doesnt do anything for ammonia. Api aqua essentials the ingredients for this have they been found to reduce ammonia? Or is it just another wild claim? @Randy Holmes-Farley

Actually - if you search through my posts - I used with this a clear ammonia/nitrite toxicity - and within 4 hours resolved. (*This was in fresh water)

 

[mattb2989]

Actually - if you search through my posts - I used with this a clear ammonia/nitrite toxicity - and within 4 hours resolved. (*This was in fresh water)

What did you use?

 

[MnFish1]

What did you use?

I'm not near the bottle. Will post later

 

[MnFish1]

I'm not near the bottle. Will post later

FYI API Aqua essentials. Check out this picture of the tank before dosing. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/im-going-to-give-this-a-try-though-its-freshwater.1009781/
All of those fish recovered after about 3 hours.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In that thread you hypothesize a number of effects, including nitrite and hypoxia, and not ammonia.

FWIW, the metabisulfite mentioned in the API SDS is known to react with nitrite.

 

[MnFish1]

In that thread you hypothesize a number of effects, including nitrite and hypoxia, and not ammonia.

FWIW, the metabisulfite mentioned in the API SDS is known to react with nitrite.

Correct - Actually, what I think I said (or meant to say) - is that I did not measure either ammonia or nitrite or nitrate since it was an emergency. So all I can say is that the discus expert I consulted said its -typical of nitrite poisoning, and within 4 hours it was resolved. Interestingly this event occurred again when a neighbor overfed the fish - one fish actually jumped out of the tank, several others were floating on the surface upside down (looking like a swim bladder issue) - again within hours, all symptoms resolved. The additional thing - that I did not report, is that in that tank there was a large amount of hair algae - which was being purposefully grown. Since treatment with that medication - 75 percent of it is dying. Suggesting potentially a lowering/change in nitrate. Unfortunately I didn't have and don't have a test kit - but - it is IMHO quite clear based on the symptoms that at least there was nitrite toxicity - which resolved - and again - I would suspect that in order to have nitrite toxicity, one would need at least a short amount of ammonia toxicity. If another disaster happens to the tank I'll check levels. During the second event there was no evidence of hypoxia/bacterial bloom, etc