Insane Ammonia Spike.. 8.0 +

[bribosaurus]

Hey all. I’m in desperate need of answers. My 75 gal reef tank has 8.0+ of ammonia. Stocked with 2 clowns, a royal gramma, and a goby/ pistol shrimp pair. It also has a few different soft corals. This tank has been established for years. A few months back, our city flushed their system with chloramine and my RO was not prepared for that. It killed off a good amount of bacteria (I assume) because all of my tanks had small amounts of ammonia for a few weeks after. Most of them have cycled it out by now though. We then had an ozone machine installed to combat the chloramine. I’ve also been adding bacteria every so often trying to rebuild whatever may have been lost.

Everything was testing fine as of Saturday 2/24. Yesterday all my corals were closed up and sulking. Royal gramma is clearly suffering. But everything is accounted for. It tested 8.0 ammonia (API) and 6.1 (fluval). Highest amount for both tests. I’m at a loss. I did a large water change yesterday and added a little prime and macrobacter 7. Came in this morning, still tested 8.0 and 6.1. I added a sponge and live rock from another tank into the sump with a little more prime and bacteria. I moved all fish and corals to a QT tank. Any ideas on how this could have happened? I've never seen anything like this.

 

[brandon429]

a false reading happened is the solid bet.

post pics of this tank, we'll compare every detail of your system to these already-charted panics:

Sustained Ammonia spikes are misreads

The reason you think your reef tank can’t control its ammonia is due to false training from old cycling science. That and you don’t own a seneye on the tank in question: if you did, you wouldn’t ever think your ammonia was out of control...

www.reef2reef.com

pics of your tank is what we need, we don't need info from cheap ammonia test kits that misread/post tank pics. due to what you can read above, I do not believe one second you have pegged ammonia.

there are about fifty 8.0 ppm claimed alerts for searching on the site, and none of them were real. simply put: things other than ammonia cause the test to read dark colors/alert.

we will know when tank pics are posted. only massive fish death left to rot in a reef display can crash the system via ammonia. not one fish, or two, all of them are required dead.

**prepare for an intersection between fish disease losses, from skipping any kind of disease preps (what most people do) and the misread of the test kit. a reefer will never believe their kit is wrong, that's also in the thread above too. the tendency in 100% of these cases is to attribute the fish malady to the detected ammonia, but it doesn't work that way. the malady comes before the misread if there's even tank symptoms present. yours is the first post per above that ever mentioned any, most of those were perfectly normal tanks still in panic.

for your troubleshoot we will dissect disease losses from the biofilter control in your tank based on it's age/time since setup and other factors in the pic.

 

[bribosaurus]

a false reading happened.

post pics of this tank, we'll compare every detail of your system to these already-charted panics:

Sustained Ammonia spikes are misreads

The reason you think your reef tank can’t control its ammonia is due to false training from old cycling science. That and you don’t own a seneye on the tank in question: if you did, you wouldn’t ever think your ammonia was out of control...

www.reef2reef.com

pics of your tank is what we need, we don't need info from cheap ammonia test kits that misread/post tank pics. due to what you can read above, I do not believe one second you have pegged ammonia.

there are about fifty 8.0 ppm claimed alerts for searching on the site, and none of them were real.

a false reading happened.

post pics of this tank, we'll compare every detail of your system to these already-charted panics:

Sustained Ammonia spikes are misreads

The reason you think your reef tank can’t control its ammonia is due to false training from old cycling science. That and you don’t own a seneye on the tank in question: if you did, you wouldn’t ever think your ammonia was out of control...

www.reef2reef.com

pics of your tank is what we need, we don't need info from cheap ammonia test kits that misread/post tank pics. due to what you can read above, I do not believe one second you have pegged ammonia.

there are about fifty 8.0 ppm claimed alerts for searching on the site, and none of them were real.

For context, this tank lives at a non profit where we have very limited resources. I do the best I can with what I have and have even put my own money into this system.

If I’m wrong about the ammonia, what would’ve cause my fish and corals to visibly suffer overnight?

 

[brandon429]

excellent!

that system does not have 8 ppm ammonia at all.

can you post a new ammonia test pic, lets see the cause for this concern as a color gradient.

assessment questions: where would the extra boost of ammonia come from if the reading was true? what's your assessment on that portion

we will be able to see the type of test kit you have after it's pics are shown, and we can then search to see if that brand of kit is implicated in misreads too.


how many total fish are in that system above? have any died that are still wedged in the tank

this is about to become a misread thread we can use to help hundreds of other reefers remove this concern

 

[brandon429]

I re read and saw you moved out fish and corals, you can put them back now. that tank never had an ammonia spike to 8 ppm. to save retyping the reasons why, it's all in the example thread above.

 

[bribosaurus]

This is day 3,

I re read and saw you moved out fish and corals, you can put them back now. that tank never had an ammonia spike to 8 ppm. to save retyping the reasons why, it's all in the example thread above.

I re read and saw you moved out fish and corals, you can put them back now. that tank never had an ammonia spike to 8 ppm. to save retyping the reasons why, it's all in the example thread above.

Btw- the photos I posted are from weeks ago, right now the tank is just a pile of live rock.

I am aware that api and fluval are “cheap test kits” but again this is a non profit and I’m doing the best I can with what I’m provided with

 

[brandon429]

that's true agreed. only new cycling science can contest a test reading this way; we have all been trained solely on old cycling science that says to believe a kit, and take action, no matter what outside of any context or study or counter challenge at all.

its a slow evolution process for sure

that tank doesn't have a real spike though, it's able to be put right back into use. I hope you'll update this thread with pics along the way.

if you never run an ammonia or nitrite test kit on a reef tank display your reefing will run much smoother, these test kits simply cause mass concern that is always unfounded. only a tank full of dead fish or a tank stilled with no motion, or a poisoned tank by external sources will overcome your natural ammonia control ability.

nothing in normal daily running including some degree of fish death left in the tank will overcome natural ammonia control, it's the most solid thing in reefing that a tank does.

 

[Garf]

This is day 3,


I am aware that api and fluval are “cheap test kits” but again this is a non profit and I’m doing the best I can with what I’m provided with

You got a little new saltwater that you can test with those kits?

 

[bribosaurus]

You got a little new saltwater that you can test with those kits?

Yes, we have dozens of tanks here that are all testing perfectly fine. Our touch tank, lionfish tank, all QT tanks, etc test with 0 ammonia.

 

[bribosaurus]

Okay, so try to convince my organization to invest in a digital water testing system. And I need to brush up on my cycling science.

But still, it’s my fish were huddling in the bottom corner of the tank. My clove polyps completely melted overnight. My gsp and mushrooms were all closed for 2 days and my leather was shriveled up and sagging. If not ammonia spike, then what? How can I be confident they are fine to go back into the tank?

 

[bribosaurus]

Yes, we have dozens of tanks here that are all testing perfectly fine. Our touch tank, lionfish tank, all QT tanks, etc test with 0 ammonia.

I tested our the water coming straight from the RODI system… 0 ammonia. Yellow as can be

 

[sde1500]

Test kit is false positive based on the chloramine in your tank causing the test kits to read ammonia.

 

[bribosaurus]

Test kit is false positive based on the chloramine in your tank causing the test kits to read ammonia.

The chloramine issue happened in early December.
Why would that cause such an insane false positive 2 months later?

Also, why wouldn’t any of the other tanks be having the same issues?

 

[brandon429]

whats the stated source for the new 8 ppm ammonia in the suspect tank

it has to be multiple things dead: were there multiple things dead and left rotting in the tank?

 

[sde1500]

The chloramine issue happened in early December.
Why would that cause such an insane false positive 2 months later?

Also, why wouldn’t any of the other tanks be having the same issues?

Do you regularly test for Ammonia? Or only did so because of the issues? I ask because it isn't common, or at all necessary to regularly test a cycled tank. My guess is if you did water changes with RO water containing chloramine, its still in your tank causing the false positive.

Edit to add, or they are still adding some chloramine to the water. Did you upgrade the RO unit to remove it?

 

[brandon429]

"Stocked with 2 clowns, a royal gramma, and a goby/ pistol shrimp pair"

if all that died at once in a 75 g system with live rock, it wouldn't cause 8 ppm ammonia. that's a tiny tiny bioload. clues in your post isn't important to old cycling science, it'll focus solely on the test kit, to the exclusion of any counter example threads. focus on the test kit is the issue

you blanking it on non reef water doesn't apply at all.

reef water has metabolites that trick the test, drinking water doesnt. other tanks tested may not have the same metabolites/waste kicked up/dosers of other things unstated here or not known to you at the time of the test.


*you don't have to own an ammonia test kit in reefing, buying a seneye is a waste of money unless you want to use it for cycling proofs. no ammonia testing is needed to reef after cycling is complete for sure. there isn't a need to spot check ammonia levels in a running reef tank display.

 

[bribosaurus]

whats the stated source for the new 8 ppm ammonia in the suspect tank

it has to be multiple things dead: were there multiple things dead?

I don’t know what the source would be. Nothing died. Nothing entered the tank. Nothing was touched or changed. That’s why I’m posting on here..

"Stocked with 2 clowns, a royal gramma, and a goby/ pistol shrimp pair"

if all that died at once in a 75 g system with live rock, it wouldn't cause 8 ppm ammonia. that's a tiny tiny bioload. clues in your post isn't important to old cycling science, it'll focus solely on the test kit, to the exclusion of any counter example threads. focus on the test kit is the issue

you blanking it on non reef water doesn't apply at all.

reef water has metabolites that trick the test, drinking water doesnt. other tanks tested may not have the same metabolites/waste kicked up/dosers of other things unstated here or not known to you at the time of the test.


*you don't have to own an ammonia test kit in reefing, buying a seneye is a waste of money unless you want to use it for cycling proofs. no ammonia testing is needed to reef:

Maybe im just not understanding what is being said here.

My fish and corals were visibly suffering. One coral melted away.

If my crappy ammonia test gave me a false positive…. Does anyone have any clues as to what would make my animals suffer??

Do you regularly test for Ammonia? Or only did so because of the issues? I ask because it isn't common, or at all necessary to regularly test a cycled tank. My guess is if you did water changes with RO water containing chloramine, its still in your tank causing the false positive.

Edit to add, or they are still adding some chloramine to the water. Did you upgrade the RO unit to remove it?

I only tested for ammonia after seeing my fish and corals suffering. We upgraded our RO unit and added and ozone machine. It’s been over 2 months since the chloramine flush.

 

[sde1500]

right, sorry missed that part of not testing regularly. I would guess you still have chloramine in the water, leading to the false positives. Run the RO unit and do a chlorine test on some new water.

 

[bribosaurus]

right, sorry missed that part of not testing regularly. I would guess you still have chloramine in the water, leading to the false positives. Run the RO unit and do a chlorine test on some new water.

no worries, i apologize im having trouble navigating this website and i see now that im on web that my replies are getting all jumbled.

I will test all systems for chlorine. if chloramine is still present in the water, are you suggesting the chloramine is what is harming this fish& coral? or just that the chloramine is what's causing the positive test result?

For the latter, I just dont understand why the chloramine would not result in a false positive for any of the other tanks. On this tank specifically, we do bi-weekly water changes. On most other tanks, we do weekly. Meaning this tank has had significantly less "contaminated water" entering it. Our touch tank, for example, gets 600+ gallon water changes a week with potentially "contaminated water".. it just does not make sense to me why that tank wouldn't have a false positive.

 

[sde1500]

I think mostly I'm leaning towards it being the cause of the test results, not the cause of the issues. Honestly I think it is usually hard to say what causes sudden weird issues like this. Sounds like this is a facility, cleaning service spray something near the tank they shouldn't have? Use a new scented plug in or something? Add anything new to the tank recently?

Do you have any carbon you can run on the tank? Try getting a polyfilter as well, changes colors and could show possible issues.