Anthias with Ich??

[clhardy5]

These Anthias are going to be the death of me! Yesterday I was posting about pop eye - which is getting better. Now I think they have ich........Backstory:
For the last 3.5 weeks, I have three Anthias in QT - along with a baby long nose hawkfish. They were treated with API General cure and came out of it fine. They are all three eating, swimming normally. I do have some aggression in the tank - the largest female keeps the two smaller ones 'in their corners'. I didn't treat with copper as I read that Anthias are very sensitive to it - so my plan was to watch them for 6 weeks - and I thought about doing the Molly thing - but hadn't acted on it. Anyway, fast forward to now, the two smaller females have what appears to be Ich. But...I have zero experience identifying - so I'm asking here. Am I correct? Is this Ich? Should I try TTM (I do have a setup) - or start treating with copper. I have cupramine and a Salifert test that I bought just in case.

The water in the QT is changed out every couple of days (50%)...and I test ammonia regularly. Just want to do what's best for these fish, and help them through quarantine - but need advice. Can I wait till tomorrow to start treatment?

 

[Idoc]

Are there spots anywhere else on the fish besides on the fins? I can't see any other shots in the pics.

If it's only on the fins, it could just be lymph, which doesn't need to be treated. But, lymph spots won't go away in a couple days. If the spots "change" location...ie, some disappear and others pop up... then you probably have a case of ich.

 

[clhardy5]

Are there spots anywhere else on the fish besides on the fins? I can't see any other shots in the pics.

If it's only on the fins, it could just be lymph, which doesn't need to be treated. But, lymph spots won't go away in a couple days. If the spots "change" location...ie, some disappear and others pop up... then you probably have a case of ich.

Yes. There are spots on one of the females body....around the head area. You can kind of see them if you zoom in on the first picture. So I"m assuming this is Ich?

So would TTM or Copper be better for these Lyretails?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

These Anthias are going to be the death of me! Yesterday I was posting about pop eye - which is getting better. Now I think they have ich........Backstory:
For the last 3.5 weeks, I have three Anthias in QT - along with a baby long nose hawkfish. They were treated with API General cure and came out of it fine. They are all three eating, swimming normally. I do have some aggression in the tank - the largest female keeps the two smaller ones 'in their corners'. I didn't treat with copper as I read that Anthias are very sensitive to it - so my plan was to watch them for 6 weeks - and I thought about doing the Molly thing - but hadn't acted on it. Anyway, fast forward to now, the two smaller females have what appears to be Ich. But...I have zero experience identifying - so I'm asking here. Am I correct? Is this Ich? Should I try TTM (I do have a setup) - or start treating with copper. I have cupramine and a Salifert test that I bought just in case.

The water in the QT is changed out every couple of days (50%)...and I test ammonia regularly. Just want to do what's best for these fish, and help them through quarantine - but need advice. Can I wait till tomorrow to start treatment?

That is almost positively ich. Coppersafe, dosed to the actual tank water volume (not rated capacity) taken up to full dose in two doses is well tolerated - do this within 6 hours, don't delay. Having a Hanna high range copper checker would be best, but in a pinch you can use another copper test kit (try to avoid the API kit, tough to use). If you have no testing ability, you can still use coppersafe, just dose carefully and then re dose any replacement water.

Calculate actual water volume by measuring the inside width and length and water depth in inches, multiply those three numbers and divide by 231 to get US gallons.


Jay

 

[clhardy5]

That is almost positively ich. Coppersafe, dosed to the actual tank water volume (not rated capacity) taken up to full dose in two doses is well tolerated - do this within 6 hours, don't delay. Having a Hanna high range copper checker would be best, but in a pinch you can use another copper test kit (try to avoid the API kit, tough to use). If you have no testing ability, you can still use coppersafe, just dose carefully and then re dose any replacement water.

Calculate actual water volume by measuring the inside width and length and water depth in inches, multiply those three numbers and divide by 231 to get US gallons.


Jay

Jay,

Thanks! I don't have Coppersafe....Can I use the Cupermine? If not....I will try to call around to the other LFS and see what they have in stock.

Also- strange update....This morning all of the spots are gone. I'm beginning to think that this may be stress induced. The larger (I think its transitioning) Anthias is getting pretty aggressive. So during the day, the two smaller are sent to their corners A LOT. But at night, they all sleep peacefully in the PVC pipes...so this morning, they look ok. Also....there have never been any spots on the larger Anthias and the long nose hawkfish (who also gets chased). Is this normal? Should I separate the aggressor and see what happens? I can put her/him in the other QT tank. Or just treat with Copper right away? (still need to find some)

Really appreciate your help.

Carrie

 

[Btreefing]

Petco has coppersafe, ich falls off during there cycle and comes back. I would treat asap. I lost 7 out of 8 fish because I was dragging my feet when the ich spots fell off.

 

[clhardy5]

Petco has coppersafe, ich falls off during there cycle and comes back. I would treat asap. I lost 7 out of 8 fish because I was dragging my feet when the ich spots fell off.

Thanks. I always forget about checking there....and they are sooooo much closer than any of my LFS. What did you check the level of Copper with? I don't have Hanna....but do have Salifert. I will avoid API as Jay suggested.

 

[Btreefing]

I used all 3 of these, Hanna was the easiest and quickest for me. I used the other 2 until the Hanna came in

 

[greetl01]

That is almost positively ich. Coppersafe, dosed to the actual tank water volume (not rated capacity) taken up to full dose in two doses is well tolerated - do this within 6 hours, don't delay. Having a Hanna high range copper checker would be best, but in a pinch you can use another copper test kit (try to avoid the API kit, tough to use). If you have no testing ability, you can still use coppersafe, just dose carefully and then re dose any replacement water.

Calculate actual water volume by measuring the inside width and length and water depth in inches, multiply those three numbers and divide by 231 to get US gallons.


Jay

Are you saying that as long as no water is removed the dosage will stay the same? No degradation???? I just always assumed I’d have to keep checking the copper levels bc I kept seeing people say don’t let it get below therapeutic levels. I hope that’s what your saying. That would be great news!

 

[Btreefing]

I did notice my levels would go a little higher when water evaporated, I did weekly water changes and tested copper every 3 days. If Copper started to rise I would add a little water and test again.

 

[Idoc]

Jay,

Thanks! I don't have Coppersafe....Can I use the Cupermine? If not....I will try to call around to the other LFS and see what they have in stock.

Also- strange update....This morning all of the spots are gone. I'm beginning to think that this may be stress induced. The larger (I think its transitioning) Anthias is getting pretty aggressive. So during the day, the two smaller are sent to their corners A LOT. But at night, they all sleep peacefully in the PVC pipes...so this morning, they look ok. Also....there have never been any spots on the larger Anthias and the long nose hawkfish (who also gets chased). Is this normal? Should I separate the aggressor and see what happens? I can put her/him in the other QT tank. Or just treat with Copper right away? (still need to find some)

Really appreciate your help.

Carrie

That definitely confirms ich...if the spots disappear after a couple of days, then it is ich. They will come back...

Definitely time to treat...

As long as you don't see physical damage from the aggression, I would monitor the situation. If you are really worried, you can always create an egg-crate divider in the quarantine tank. But, they are all going to be living together in the main tank eventually.

 

[Idoc]

Are you saying that as long as no water is removed the dosage will stay the same? No degradation???? I just always assumed I’d have to keep checking the copper levels bc I kept seeing people say don’t let it get below therapeutic levels. I hope that’s what your saying. That would be great news!

I haven't seen degradation of the copper when I quarantine. The problem comes with water changes and topping off the tank due to evaporation. Any water changes must be replaced with water already dosed up to the same level of copper to keep the drop from occuring. Also, when topping off the tank...make sure you aren't adding more water than was evaporated off initially. I always mark the sides of my quarantine tanks with tape/erasable marker to show my starting water levels that I want to maintain.

 

[clhardy5]

Thanks for your replies, everyone. Picked up a bottle of Coppersafe, and will go to the lfs later today for a Hanna checker - I'll use my Salifert for the initial check. I think I will move them to my 20 gallon (extra tank), to help keep ammonia a little more in check - good or bad idea? I know it will need more Copper... Hopefully, I'll kick the Ich soon.

The aggression did cause one of the smaller females a pop eye situation, which cleared up on its own.....but while I'm stressing them all out in QT, I just might put some egg crate in.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Are you saying that as long as no water is removed the dosage will stay the same? No degradation???? I just always assumed I’d have to keep checking the copper levels bc I kept seeing people say don’t let it get below therapeutic levels. I hope that’s what your saying. That would be great news!

Coppersafe is pretty stable. I've dosed it without testing and let it go 30 days and still had close to a full dose. That said, any calcareous material - rock, sand, etc. is going to cause more of it to drop out of solution - in a bare tank though, it stays pretty well. Testing and partial redosing is of course the best what to go, but if you don't start a treatment, you will likely lose these fish to ich....

Jay

 

[clhardy5]

That is almost positively ich. Coppersafe, dosed to the actual tank water volume (not rated capacity) taken up to full dose in two doses is well tolerated - do this within 6 hours, don't delay. Having a Hanna high range copper checker would be best, but in a pinch you can use another copper test kit (try to avoid the API kit, tough to use). If you have no testing ability, you can still use coppersafe, just dose carefully and then re dose any replacement water.

Calculate actual water volume by measuring the inside width and length and water depth in inches, multiply those three numbers and divide by 231 to get US gallons.


Jay

Thanks! I just put in the first 1/2 dose of Coppersafe. I'm on my way to the LFS to get the Hanna Checker. How far apart should the two doses be to bring it up to full power?

Carrie

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks! I just put in the first 1/2 dose of Coppersafe. I'm on my way to the LFS to get the Hanna Checker. How far apart should the two doses be to bring it up to full power?

Carrie

Just long enough for full mixing to take place, then test to ensure that the dose is at 1/2 - perhaps 4 hours. Then, just dose the second 1/2 dose.

Jay

 

[clhardy5]

Just long enough for full mixing to take place, then test to ensure that the dose is at 1/2 - perhaps 4 hours. Then, just dose the second 1/2 dose.

Jay

I really appreciate all your help. So far, Anthias are tolerating it well and eating. Here's hoping they make it through!

Carrie

 

[Btreefing]

If you caught it soon enough then they'll be fine. Just make sure you keep the copper levels therapeutic for the full time. I'm a true believer in 72 days but I'm sure everyone will have there own opinions. Read on the whole life cycle on ich, a lot of good stuff out there.

 

[clhardy5]

Thanks for everyone's help. Unfortunately, she did make it. The red spots are like she was bleeding....not sure if that means anything. It's sad. I started with 4 Anthias....I'm down to 2. My LFS said they weren't a hard fish - I beg to differ.