Any help kindly appreciated, dinos/cyano problem?

[Domizi]

Hi!
I'm relatively new to the hobby, and have a tank running since 10 months. Since march I've been battling what I think has been a mix of cyano and dinos. I've followed the advice from this thread https://www.ultimatereef.net/threads/esoxs-guide-to-getting-rid-of-nuisance-dinos-and-cyano.886819/ and been doing manual removal with bubble scrubbing daily for almost 6 months, adding microbacter7 and phyto (and at one point some copepods which I believe were eaten almost immediately by my pink streak wrasse). The tank has during that time matured a bit with new small spots of coralline popping up every day now. However, I'm getting really tired of the manual daily removal, and by February will be dad for the second time. I have some options I've identified, and I would hope to get your input and help in deciding on how to proceed. I'm in no real rush, good things happen slow, but this feels at the moment like it is not helping at all. Tank info and nuisance info posted below to avoid bloat.

1. Continue doing what I'm doing, it will get better.
2. Stop blowing on the sand, just keep blowing it off the rocks/corals.
3. Add UV.
4. Dose silicates.
5. Can't help you without a microscope identification.

Nuisance info: Forms mats on the sand, and when blown on disappears further down into the sand. The parts above the sand forms strings that blow in the current. Attaches to any surface that is the least bit uneven. Comes back in a matter of hours. Sometimes forms bubbles. Pictures 1 and 2 is from having blown it off the sand the day before, pictures 3 and 4 right after manual cleaning.

Tank info:
-10 months old, 30g AIO. Running skimmer at night (sounds awful, came with the tank) and carbon 24/7. Made the mistake to start with only dry rock.
-Inhabitants: 2 clowns, 1 pink streak wrasse, some trochus, nassarius, ceriths and an astrea. Some discosomas and a toadstool for corals so far (also had clove polyps which got irritated by the constant growth).
-Parameters (all stable since april except alk, which has been slowly corrected from lower values, long story): Phosphate 0,03-0,07, Nitrate 6-10, alk 7,2, salinity 34ppt, pH 8,15, calcium 415, magnesium 1320.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[mcarroll]

Try just reading the first post here to make sure you have all the basics:

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?​

"Bubble scrubbing" is still circulating as an idea???

Bacterial treatments are likely just to feed the Dino's.

Coralline showing up is surprising, but a good sign!

#5 and #3 on your list aren't usually optional....see link above.

Skimmer, more than likely, either needs a teardown cleaning or a new impeller. Try one then the other.

Depending how stable those N&P numbers are (ie do you dose to maintain them?) your P might be on the low side. I'd recommend dosing to keep it up around 0.10 ppm until you're done sorting this out.

Let me know if you have questions about this or the contents of the link above!

 

[painter1982]

I tried everything. It was ozone that finally fixed the dino problem. Chemiclean fixed the cyano. But that’s just my tank. I’m sure others has results with other methods.

 

[Domizi]

Try just reading the first post here to make sure you have all the basics:

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?​

"Bubble scrubbing" is still circulating as an idea???

Bacterial treatments are likely just to feed the Dino's.

Coralline showing up is surprising, but a good sign!

#5 and #3 on your list aren't usually optional....see link above.

Skimmer, more than likely, either needs a teardown cleaning or a new impeller. Try one then the other.

Depending how stable those N&P numbers are (ie do you dose to maintain them?) your P might be on the low side. I'd recommend dosing to keep it up around 0.10 ppm until you're done sorting this out.

Let me know if you have questions about this or the contents of the link above!

Thank you for this reply! It is really hard to navigate this hobby since there are conflicting information on just about everything.

I will have to find a way to get an ID and probably UV then. Hopefully can find a decent one for an AIO. Do you keep the UV on even after the dino outbreak is gone?

Had hoped to get a natural approach with better nutrient levels (dosing nitrates and feeding supplemental pellets to frozen to keep po4 up). I do need to feed pellets at least once daily to keep po4 up.

Skimmer has been sounding like this since it was new. It is a sicce AC pump powering it, and causing a humming. Was the same with the return pump that came with the tank, had to switch to a DC one.

 

[Domizi]

I tried everything. It was ozone that finally fixed the dino problem. Chemiclean fixed the cyano. But that’s just my tank. I’m sure others has results with other methods.

Interesting. What kind of product did you use?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

to me it looks like cyano. If you have your tank stabilized, then I would go ahead and just use chemiclean to get rid of it.

 

[BryanM]

If what you're battling goes in to the water column at night then a UV likely would help your situation.

 

[Domizi]

to me it looks like cyano. If you have your tank stabilized, then I would go ahead and just use chemiclean to get rid of it.

Would love for it to be cyano. The reason as to why I've thought it's dinos is that it came when nutrients bottomed out and the diatoms just left, and because it comes back within a few hours after blowing it away. You might be right though, I'll try to identify it with a microscope.

 

[Domizi]

If what you're battling goes in to the water column at night then a UV likely would help your situation.

Yeah, that makes sense. But how do I know it goes in the water column instead of buries in the sand? I guess species identification goes a long way here?

 

[BryanM]

Yeah, that makes sense. But how do I know it goes in the water column instead of buries in the sand? I guess species identification goes a long way here?

I don't think these things tend to try and burrow or hide in sand. If you see this disappearing its going in to the water column, in which case it can be treated with UV.

 

[Featherweight]

What's your source water like?
How heavy do you feed?
Can you increase flow a bit?

Do you have a nori clip or magnets? If so put a piece of filter floss on your glass and see if/ how fast the stuff builds up. Easy to remove, rinse, repeat.

 

[Domizi]

What's your source water like?
How heavy do you feed?
Can you increase flow a bit?

Do you have a nori clip or magnets? If so put a piece of filter floss on your glass and see if/ how fast the stuff builds up. Easy to remove, rinse, repeat.

Water source is my own RODI-unit. Using aquaforest reef salt.
Feeding 2 times a day, once with frozen, once with pellets (since my phosphates get too low if I only feed frozen).
I have tried to increase the flow, but whatever it is clings to rock and sand regardless, and it would be too high for my corals in the long run.

I haven't got any filter floss (use sock) but could try to get some. Do mean this as a way of manual removal?

 

[dvgyfresh]

Add some more biodiversity - macro algae , pods , miracle mud . Ensure proper flow. Lower lighting to only blues , install UV in display. Is my method , but you mention Dino’s on sanded that would be amph Dino’s so UV would be useless but everything else would work. I also battled Dino’s forever in first tank because dry rock. Dosing phytoplankton also seems to help . I don’t like chemical solutions or solutions that cause too much work - i aim for the tank to stabilize itself , not me stabilizing the tank

 

[mook1178]

I am still fighting dinos, bu they have dramatically reduced.

I had a huge problem with cyano and dinos. i let it go for probably a month first with no water changes. This allowed my nutrients to build up in the system. I then did a 48 hour blackout and did a 20% water change the first day with light back on. Cyano disappeared and has not come back, about 2 months now. However, Dinos came back with a vengeance that first week.

Now I have been doing a 48 hour blackout every Monday and Tuesday with weekly water changes on Wednesdays. It now takes about 3 days before I see any signs of dinos and by Sunday, you can see more brown, but not as bad. It is noticeably reduced every week how many dinos are in the tank on Sunday.

I have not manually removed any. I have collected live rock from friends, the lfs, and local reefers to add plenty of microbe biodiversity. I do not have UV, ozone, etc. I turned my skimmer to more of a wet skim.

I feel like I am winning the battle this way and will eventually knock them out. I feel like the blackout opens up space on the rocks for the microbes to grow.

This is my 2 cent. I have no idea what type they are, but this method has been working for me.

 

[mook1178]

Water source is my own RODI-unit. Using aquaforest reef salt.
Feeding 2 times a day, once with frozen, once with pellets (since my phosphates get too low if I only feed frozen).
I have tried to increase the flow, but whatever it is clings to rock and sand regardless, and it would be too high for my corals in the long run.

I haven't got any filter floss (use sock) but could try to get some. Do mean this as a way of manual removal?

Most frozen food is higher in phosphates as it is used in the gelatin or whatever is in the other than the meat. That is why a lot of people will rinse frozen food

 

[Domizi]

Most frozen food is higher in phosphates as it is used in the gelatin or whatever is in the other than the meat. That is why a lot of people will rinse frozen food

While that might be true, the nutrient density of pellets is higher, making the amount of po4 added larger for each "serving", even though po4 vs nitrate content might be higher.

 

[slingfox]

Looks like you are willing to put in the work. I would highly recommend getting a UV light to some sort.

If the Dino’s go into the water column here is one technique I used to reduce the Dino load: buy a large roll of aquarium filter floss from Amazon or the LFS, cut into large rectangles and clip them to your glass. Dinos will collect on the filter floss. Rinse the floss out 1-2 times a day. Over time the Dino population will decline.

 

[Domizi]

Looks like you are willing to put in the work. I would highly recommend getting a UV light to some sort.

If the Dino’s go into the water column here is one technique I used to reduce the Dino load: buy a large roll of aquarium filter floss from Amazon or the LFS, cut into large rectangles and clip them to your glass. Dinos will collect on the filter floss. Rinse the floss out 1-2 times a day. Over time the Dino population will decline.

I will just make sure I dont have the kind that doesn't go into the water column, going to try to analyze a sample today.

I saw this recommended in a post above. Never heard of it before, seems interesting and might give it a try! How much floss do you put in each time (not exactly but just a ballpark estimate)?

 

[slingfox]

I will just make sure I dont have the kind that doesn't go into the water column, going to try to analyze a sample today.

I saw this recommended in a post above. Never heard of it before, seems interesting and might give it a try! How much floss do you put in each time (not exactly but just a ballpark estimate)?

I put in as large as pieces and I can fit. That provides more surface area for the Dino’s to attach to

 

[Domizi]

to me it looks like cyano. If you have your tank stabilized, then I would go ahead and just use chemiclean to get rid of it.

Turns out you were correct. Got a microscope picture, if not the best, of these little suckers. Have ordered something similar to chemiclean, but since I'm in Sweden Chemiclean itself was not obtainable. Thank you for your correct initial assessment!