Anyone reliably using Apex ATK?

[Chuck Lawson]

I've had them on three tanks for the last few months and they've worked fine. My only issue is that two of them are AIO tanks (and so the ATK is in the rear section near the top of a rimless tank) and for some reason they get a loud "splashing spray" sound when the top-off water starts and stops (it's fairly quiet in between). It's nothing awful, it just tends to surprise me when the house is otherwise quiet -- particularly having kept aquariums for long enough that "sudden water noises" tend to register for me as "oh cr*p - what happened?"

 

[Joe Carioti]

particularly having kept aquariums for long enough that "sudden water noises" tend to register for me as "oh cr*p - what happened?"

Yeah, this is no joke. Weird splashing or spraying noises makes my stomach sink. Aquarium PTSD haha.

 

[rob safron]

I’m happy enough with it. I hear a lot of people say take off the float valve, well it saved me. Somehow the siphon break dropped under the ATO water and my sump would have had another 10 gallons of it were not for the float valve stopping the continuous siphon. My only other complaint is I wish they would have put the high sensor a little bit higher on the bracket. I use a siphon overflow and the water level on my return section fluctuates minute by minute. Many times just high enough to set off the high water alarm, usually at night. Could put a 3rd sensor higher up in the chamber and not use the ATK sensor as an overflow alarm. Didn’t want to spend more money.

 

[Joe Carioti]

I’m happy enough with it. I hear a lot of people say take off the float valve, well it saved me. Somehow the siphon break dropped under the ATO water and my sump would have had another 10 gallons of it were not for the float valve stopping the continuous siphon. My only other complaint is I wish they would have put the high sensor a little bit higher on the bracket. I use a siphon overflow and the water level on my return section fluctuates minute by minute. Many times just high enough to set off the high water alarm, usually at night. Could put a 3rd sensor higher up in the chamber and not use the ATK sensor as an overflow alarm. Didn’t want to spend more money.

You can just move the top ATK sensor to a different, higher location as another option. Thanks for the input. If the float valve fits in my return chamber I'll probably try to keep it attached.

 

[rob safron]

You can just move the top ATK sensor to a different, higher location as another option. Thanks for the input. If the float valve fits in my return chamber I'll probably try to keep it attached.

The 2 sensors, low and high, are built in to the magnetic mount. I guess there is a way to unscrew it off the mount and find another magnetic mount to use to mount it higher. Just a lot of extra work and expense for me. Even if they were another quarter inch it would have been fine. Besides that I like the device.

 

[ReeferRoo]

The 2 sensors, low and high, are built in to the magnetic mount. I guess there is a way to unscrew it off the mount and find another magnetic mount to use to mount it higher. Just a lot of extra work and expense for me. Even if they were another quarter inch it would have been fine. Besides that I like the device.

Neptune sells a separate sensor with a magnetic mount -

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/os-1m-optical-level-sensor-with-mount-neptune-systems.html


or you can buy these if you dont want to buy an additional sesor - They work with the sensor as well...probably because its the same clip...

https://www.marinedepot.com/Zoo_Med_MagClip®_Magnetic_Suction_Cups_Heater_Accessories-Zoo_Med-MZ4111-FIHTHA-vi.html

 

[dragon99]

Is this only when it's in standalone mode?

They might have updated the Apex software since I tried it, but there wasn't a way to reset the device via fusion when I tried it. The alarm also doesn't stop if the water level goes back to normal.

 

[Wellford]

My earlier comment was so lengthy I didn't want to elaborate too much more. Because I do not have the Apex, I had to use the ATK in stand alone mode all the time. And since the Apex is needed in order to do a firmware update, I could not do an update when I received the unit. The problem for mine was pretty clearly firmware, and seemed to be related to the length of fill times. After a few fill cycles the firmware calculates an average fill time. As a safety backup, the firmware will shut the system down if a subsequent fill cycle greatly exceeds that calculated average. My fill cycles were typically four or five seconds, but once in a while a cycle would run 15-20 seconds, and that would trigger an alarm. I always shut the ATK off when I was working on the tank so that would not cause a problem. The overly long fill cycles were not associated with any work on the tank.

 

[ReeferRoo]

They might have updated the Apex software since I tried it, but there wasn't a way to reset the device via fusion when I tried it. The alarm also doesn't stop if the water level goes back to normal.

Since the NSI, if in connected mode the condition will reset on its own when the condition clears, or when sampling data shows the event is cleared. Sampling I believe is an algorithm and not set time intervals. I have had alarms, and they have always cleared on their own without having to reset the module in connected mode.

 

[rkpetersen]

I have been using the ATK connected to my Apex for about 6 months now. Overall, I am happy with it, and got a second one for a new tank I'm setting up. However, there have definitely been issues.

1. The low level optical sensor failed in CLOSED position after less than 3 months. This caused the sump water level to drop as the ATK thought it was full. Fortunately I caught the situation before the pump sucked air. I replaced the defective sensor with a spare I had. I do not know for sure since I didn't bother, but to get it 'repaired' under warranty, they probably would have wanted me to send in the entire sensor/float assembly; nope. These optical sensors, on the ATK and also on the DDR, have had a horrible track record for reliability; everyone I know personally who uses them has had at least one fail. I'm actually not convinced that they're meant to be used entirely submerged at all. But they are convenient, and easy to place in even tight locations.

2. The pmup is also reported to be somewhat fragile, especially if you use kalkwasser in your ATO reservoir. Premature breakage of blades and corrosion of the magnet have been seen. Also electrical failure with unpredictable effects on Apex operation. In part for these reasons, I have a) moved the kalk to its own small reactor; only pure H2O in the reservoir now, and b) added a separately programmed solenoid in the ATO line, so that even if the pmup has a seizure, its runaway output will be blocked. Also if you need the siphon break, for example with a Red Sea Reefer, kalk in your ATO is already a setup for disaster, even if the pump functions perfectly.

3. The OPEN/CLOSED sensitivity of the optical sensors is pretty good, and does the job just fine as far as providing small frequent RODI additions to keep your salinity very steady. However, in my case, I haven't found that I can depend on Apex + ATK to dose kalk in the very even doses I'd like, when I try to base it on optical sensor detection of evaporation. Set to minimum interval of 30 minutes, sometimes I'll get a dose for 10-15 seconds, and sometimes for 30 seconds or more. I've tried a number of things and can't get it tighter than that. So I switched to timed ATO dosing using the OSC command, which is working extremely well to both handle evaporation and dose kalk evenly. With this approach, the optical sensors will allow or not allow the dosing, but they don't trigger it directly.

 

[rkpetersen]

They might have updated the Apex software since I tried it, but there wasn't a way to reset the device via fusion when I tried it. The alarm also doesn't stop if the water level goes back to normal.

Alarms do reset if the conditions goes away. You also have a great deal of control of how you want your alarms to behave in Fusion, including two completely separate ways of configuring them (which, admittedly, can be confusing at first), and the ability to turn them off manually.

For the ATK, if it stays on for longer at one time than what you have set as the maximum allowed, the 'When On' command will generate an error condition and manually turn your ATK off (the slider on the dashboard no longer says AUTO, it has moved to OFF.) For this specific situation, you just set the slider back to AUTO to get it back online (after figuring out why the pump was running too long.)

 

[recess62]

It's consistent unless I shut off my return pump or control the return speed. If I turn my return pump down to 30%, my skimmer will start to overflow. There's no logic that I know of in Apex that allows you program "if return speed < 100% then off".

I use the apex flow sensor to turn my skimmer on and off. When flow goes below a set value the skimmer shuts down

 

[spifftempo]

Joe Carioti said: "There's no logic that I know of in Apex that allows you program "if return speed < 100% then off".

It is possible to do this in the newest version of firmware for both Classics and Apex NGs. If for example, the variable outlet is named ReturnSpd, then you could use something like this in your Skimmer Outlet:

If Output ReturnSpd Speed < 5 Then Off


See more about all this stuff here:

https://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?20677-Programming-Enhancements-in-AOS-5-03-and-4-53

 

[revhtree]

So far so good for me and the backup float switch and alert saved me already from a back siphon that I didn't know was there! I also love how it mounts and it's purdy too!

 

[Dr RBG]

been working flawlessly for at least 4 months!

 

[chicago]

Love mine. The modul you can add another sensor if need be for let’s say a skinner bucket like I use in case to high.

 

[Mark Gray]

I like mine no issues. I think you could easily add a sensor or 2 for you protein skimmer or use the high level for your skimmer if on then whatever outlet your skimmer is on off.

 

[Sleepydoc]

They might have updated the Apex software since I tried it, but there wasn't a way to reset the device via fusion when I tried it. The alarm also doesn't stop if the water level goes back to normal.

When used as a standalone device, you need to manually unplug the device to reset it. When attached to an Apex, you never need to reset it per se. The standard pump program contains a 'When ON > 10:00 then OFF' statement. This flips the outlet from the auto (programmed) state to permanently off if the pump has been running more than 10 minutes. It's a simple click in Fusion to flip it back to the auto mode.

The 2 sensors, low and high, are built in to the magnetic mount. I guess there is a way to unscrew it off the mount and find another magnetic mount to use to mount it higher. Just a lot of extra work and expense for me. Even if they were another quarter inch it would have been fine. Besides that I like the device.

You can actually swap the position of the float valve and the upper optical sensor to move the optical sensor to a slightly higher position

 

[LoneStarReef]

Been happy with mine. Can’t beat multiple redundancies. Have it hooked up with a solenoid directly to my RO DI unit. It’s set up so that if it runs over 10 minutes, it automatically shuts off. Plus the second optical sensor will shut it off if the water gets that high....and if all that fails the manual float valve will turn it off as a last safety check.

 

[BigJohnny]

Use the tunze, proven track record. Had mine for 3 years and have never cleaned it. Works flawlessly