Anyone reliably using Apex ATK?

[Joe Carioti]

Use the tunze, proven track record. Had mine for 3 years and have never cleaned it. Works flawlessly

I'm not looking for a proven track record, though. I'm looking for customization, flexibility, and redundancy. If I got a Tunze, I'd still be looking at getting an FMM or breakout box for float switches.

 

[dsh92056]

I had the Tunze ATO I used for a couple of years but the module went bad so since I happened to have purchased an Apex I went with their ATO and I must say it works like a charm and I wouldn't go back. I have not had to clean the sensors I've had it for about 4-5 months.

 

[BigJohnny]

I'm not looking for a proven track record, though. I'm looking for customization, flexibility, and redundancy. If I got a Tunze, I'd still be looking at getting an FMM or breakout box for float switches.

Not looking for a proven track record for equipment? Interesting approach! The tunze has redundancy for sure though. Optical sensor is primary, float switch is 2nd, internal timer is 3rd. As far as the additional float switches I don't think you'd need them just for top off but for other purposes sure, get an fmm or breakout box too then. Financially the apk may make more sense since it includes that (I think) but I personally only choose time tested reliable equipment to put on my tank. I would pick the apk as my 2nd option though.

 

[Joe Carioti]

Not looking for a proven track record for equipment? Interesting approach! The tunze has redundancy for sure though. Optical sensor is primary, float switch is 2nd, internal timer is 3rd. As far as the additional float switches I don't think you'd need them just for top off but for other purposes sure, get an fmm or breakout box too then. Financially the apk may make more sense since it includes that (I think) but I personally only choose time tested reliable equipment to put on my tank. I would pick the apk as my 2nd option though.

Yeah, to be quite honest I prefer to test out new equipment. Tried and true is one approach, cutting edge is another. Horses were a tried and true method of transportation, but cars definitely won out that competition.

Not to mention, the ATK has even more redundancy than the Tunze with 2 optical sensors, float valve, and internal timer, plus the expandability for even more redundancy with extra optical sensors and liquid detectors.

And I don't need extra float switches just for an ATO. I put elsewhere in this thread that I'm mostly interested in the FMM for the extra optical sensors and programmability in Apex. I'd like to use them around my sump for various purposes (skimmer level, skimmer cup, emergency alarm).

 

[BigJohnny]

Yeah, to be quite honest I prefer to test out new equipment. Tried and true is one approach, cutting edge is another. Not to mention, the ATK has even more redundancy with 2 optical sensors, float valve, and internal timer, plus the expandability for even more redundancy with extra optical sensors and liquid detectors.

And I don't need extra float switches just for an ATO. I put elsewhere in this thread that I'm mostly interested in the FMM for the optical sensors. I'd like to use them around my sump for various purposes (skimmer level, skimmer cup, emergency alarm).

Yeah I mean tunze was the cutting edge for a long time using that optical sensor. As far as ato only is concerned the apk doesn't have any "cutting edge" advancements it just has one more redundancy built in and includes an apex module that allows you to add more. It certainly has the expandability and customization you appear to be looking for. If that's the case I'd say it's a no brainer....

I am confused about one thing though, why do you need a float switch for skimmer level? Does the water level in your skimmer section fluctuate? I get the skimmer cup overflow one but confused on the skimmer level aspect.

 

[Joe Carioti]

Yeah I mean tunze was the cutting edge for a long time using that optical sensor. As far as ato only is concerned the apk doesn't have any "cutting edge" advancements it just has one more redundancy built in and includes an apex module that allows you to add more. It certainly has the expandability and customization you appear to be looking for. If that's the case I'd say it's a no brainer....

I am confused about one thing though, why do you need a float switch for skimmer level? Does the water level in your skimmer section fluctuate? I get the skimmer cup overflow one but confused on the skimmer level aspect.

Yeah, I'm not saying ATK is on the cutting edge of anything, more so explaining my tendency to try newer devices with more features.

I explained why I want to use a float switch for my skimmer here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/anyone-reliably-using-apex-atk.355341/#post-4409292

I use a variable speed port for my skimmer and there are plenty of situations when the speed of my return pump does cause the water in the sump to rise a little more than usual. Instead of having 10+ if statements spread out among 4 different outlets, I'd prefer to have 1 rule. If the sensor is wet, the skimmer shouldn't be on <- simple and foolproof.

 

[BigJohnny]

Yeah, I'm not saying ATK is on the cutting edge of anything, more so explaining my tendency to try newer devices with more features.

I explained why I want to use a float switch for my skimmer here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/anyone-reliably-using-apex-atk.355341/#post-4409292

I use a variable speed port for my skimmer and there are plenty of situations when the speed of my return pump does cause the water in the sump to rise a little more than usual. Instead of having 10+ if statements spread out among 4 different outlets, I'd prefer to have 1 rule. If the sensor is wet, the skimmer shouldn't be on <- simple and foolproof.

Oh, that sucks man. My skimmer chamber never fluctuates, return pump on or off or anywhere inbetween. I get the want to reduce apex code. Good luck

 

[iemsparticus]

I got the Neptune ATO as soon as is came out, and it has worked flawlessly for me since. I haven’t experienced a single issue.

 

[Joe Carioti]

Oh, that sucks man. My skimmer chamber never fluctuates, return pump on or off or anywhere inbetween. I get the want to reduce apex code. Good luck

Whoa.. that blows my mind.. I have a herbie overflow, so every time I turn my return pump off the sump fills up to the top.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Been happy with mine. Can’t beat multiple redundancies. Have it hooked up with a solenoid directly to my RO DI unit. It’s set up so that if it runs over 10 minutes, it automatically shuts off. Plus the second optical sensor will shut it off if the water gets that high....and if all that fails the manual float valve will turn it off as a last safety check.

Not related to the ATK at all, but I wouldn't recommend connecting your RO/DI unit directly to your tank. Repeated cycling of an RO/DI system is very inefficient and will rapidly deplete your DI resin. Beyond this, even with failsafes in place, having your household water supply hooked up to the tank (via the RO/DI filter) is asking for a flood. Many reefers have re-discovered Muphy's Law!

 

[Mical]

RE: ATK - great concept but if you dose kalk you WILL need to clean sensors. I just make it a small maintenance step whenever I refill my ATO tanks to clean the sensors - if anything for my own piece of mind. I have had them fail multiple times because of kalk film no matter where you place the return feed from ATO. (Apex folks told me to move the return upstream of sensors, but that makes manual float valve useless.) In their tests they obviously don't dose kalk via ATO.

 

[scuzy]

RE: ATK - great concept but if you dose kalk you WILL need to clean sensors. I just make it a small maintenance step whenever I refill my ATO tanks to clean the sensors - if anything for my own piece of mind. I have had them fail multiple times because of kalk film no matter where you place the return feed from ATO. (Apex folks told me to move the return upstream of sensors, but that makes manual float valve useless.) In their tests they obviously don't dose kalk via ATO.

I ended up moving my kalk output on the other end of the sump.

 

[DBR_Reef]

I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone: set up water level sensors so I can control when my skimmer should be on and off, and set up an ATO. I've used a Tom's Aqualifter and a standard 2 float switch for 9 years with no issues, so I don't mind going back to that if necessary. The ATK allows me to do both in one setup.

I was in the trial for the ATK, so I've had mine for a while- I have never cleaned it and it works well, so I have only had good experiences. I have heard that their optical sensors can fail, and if you run one without a apex the programming can be a bit of a pain. You don't have to run the float valve but it is a good backup. It can also be used for other sensors, or you can use it as a automatic water change system. So as a whole I think it is better than most systems out there.

 

[DBR_Reef]

RE: ATK - great concept but if you dose kalk you WILL need to clean sensors. I just make it a small maintenance step whenever I refill my ATO tanks to clean the sensors - if anything for my own piece of mind. I have had them fail multiple times because of kalk film no matter where you place the return feed from ATO. (Apex folks told me to move the return upstream of sensors, but that makes manual float valve useless.) In their tests they obviously don't dose kalk via ATO.

I would say that dosing kalk separate from your ato is a far better setup, but I think you are right- as far as I know none of the trial group doses kalk through their ATO. I dose kalk, but I use a dosing pump so that a constant amount (that does not vary with evaporation) gets dosed.

 

[BigJohnny]

Whoa.. that blows my mind.. I have a herbie overflow, so every time I turn my return pump off the sump fills up to the top.

I have a herbie too, but I designed my sump so that when it drains it doesn't reach the top of the first section where my skimmer is. It only raises the return section to match the fuge. My sump is pretty big vs display though, 40g for 90g DT.

 

[Joe Carioti]

Joe Carioti said: "There's no logic that I know of in Apex that allows you program "if return speed < 100% then off".

It is possible to do this in the newest version of firmware for both Classics and Apex NGs. If for example, the variable outlet is named ReturnSpd, then you could use something like this in your Skimmer Outlet:

If Output ReturnSpd Speed < 5 Then Off


See more about all this stuff here:

https://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?20677-Programming-Enhancements-in-AOS-5-03-and-4-53

Whoa that's perfect. Awesome.

 

[doughboy]

Basically, I don't want the skimmer to have a dependency on the state of the return pump. The return pump can have an endless number of states between its outlet and VDM ports. The VDM port can be turned off while the return pump outlet is still on, the return pump outlet could be off while the VDM port is still on. The VDM port could be on a profile that's too slow for the skimmer. etc.

if you position your second ATO float switch to the level you want skimmer to turn off, then you can simply add a condition to your skimmer outlet
If Sw2 CLOSED then OFF

That's what I did. I just positioned the second float switch immediately above the main float switch, which is about an inch water level difference.

as for ATO pump outlet, I added a virtual switch to limit the ATO outlet ON time to 30 seconds.

imho, keep it simple, float switch works just fine.

 

[Joe Carioti]

if you position your second ATO float switch to the level you want skimmer to turn off, then you can simply add a condition to your skimmer outlet
If Sw2 CLOSED then OFF

That's what I did. I just positioned the second float switch immediately above the main float switch, which is about an inch water level difference.

as for ATO pump outlet, I added a virtual switch to limit the ATO outlet ON time to 30 seconds.

imho, keep it simple, float switch works just fine.

This is exactly how I set it up yesterday. The skimmer will only run when the water level is below a safe point, now. And I have notifications set up for if the water level stays too high or too low for a set amount of time, and notifications for if the ATO pump stays on longer than expected (I guess the ATK should do that on it's own though).

 

[Mark Gray]

I have been using mine since right when it came out no problems so far

 

[Joe Carioti]

I have been using mine since right when it came out no problems so far

I did get one and I’ve been happily using it for the past 2 weeks with no issues. I did move the sensors around a bit to my liking, but the mount is easy enough to use and I’m very happy with the programmability from having the high and low water sensors.