Anyone reliably using Apex ATK?

[rkpetersen]

Well, I'm new to the ATK like I said above, and thought I had it dialed in, but...maybe I just did something silly because I also just ran into the "runs until container runs empty" symptom Well, that should be a sad panda face but it isn't bad because I caught it in time since I was home. Now...to try and trust this before I travel next week. Somehow I triggered it to stay on or it did it on its own. Could be because I'm using default labels still so I'm guessing me. The gear icon, advanced, has it set up like below. I ran through the wizard to program it.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Swx4_1 OPEN Then ON
If Swx4_2 CLOSED Then OFF
When On > 005:00 Then OFF
Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF
Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

Guessing swx4_1 is an eye? Swx4_2 is the other eye?

Switch 1 is the lower optical sensor, switch 2 is the higher one. Switch 1 normally goes between OPEN and CLOSED all day, as water evaporates and is then replaced. With normal operation, switch 2 is always OPEN. The default switch labels are fine, but if you choose to change them, the code automatically reflects the new names.

The code looks ok. Was the pump running when you discovered the problem and if so, how long had it been running? If it didn't generate an Error condition and turn itself OFF (the actual tile switches itself to OFF), it shouldn't have been longer than 5 minutes. How big is your reservoir?

Another thing to consider is whether you're developing a siphon which is emptying your reservoir into the sump.

 

[Joe Carioti]

Well, I'm new to the ATK like I said above, and thought I had it dialed in, but...maybe I just did something silly because I also just ran into the "runs until container runs empty" symptom Well, that should be a sad panda face but it isn't bad because I caught it in time since I was home. Now...to try and trust this before I travel next week. Somehow I triggered it to stay on or it did it on its own. Could be because I'm using default labels still so I'm guessing me. The gear icon, advanced, has it set up like below. I ran through the wizard to program it.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Swx4_1 OPEN Then ON
If Swx4_2 CLOSED Then OFF
When On > 005:00 Then OFF
Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF
Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

Guessing swx4_1 is an eye? Swx4_2 is the other eye?

Yep, exactly. I renamed mine to Sump_H and Sump_L so I don't get them mixed up.

 

[Joe Carioti]

Another thing to consider is whether you're developing a siphon which is emptying your reservoir into the sump.

And pay attention to the opposite direction as well. I have a check valve that prevents my sump from siphoning back into my ATO reservoir. Whenever my return pump is off, the sump level is plenty high enough to start a siphon if I didn't have the check valve. (The float valve also helps prevent this, but I don't trust float valves very much).

 

[User1]

Is it me or does this think never seem to shut off? This morning I topped off the container that I'm using and it has already dumped in about 2 gallons of water. It is higher than what I have it set for and actually above my high water mark in my sump. I'm thinking the electronic eyes are not working has intended nor is the float valve.

If the water is above the low and high sensor nothing should be triggering water to be pumped in, correct? Right now default names are still used:

swx4_1 is reading OPEN
swx4_2 is reading CLOSED
atk_4_1 is set to auto

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Is it me or does this think never seem to shut off? This morning I topped off the container that I'm using and it has already dumped in about 2 gallons of water. It is higher than what I have it set for and actually above my high water mark in my sump. I'm thinking the electronic eyes are not working has intended nor is the float valve.

If the water is above the low and high sensor nothing should be triggering water to be pumped in, correct? Right now default names are still used:

swx4_1 is reading OPEN
swx4_2 is reading CLOSED
atk_4_1 is set to auto

Did you check to make sure you have the sensors plugged into the right ports?

 

[User1]

Yeah, I did. Also just did so again since you mentioned it. 1 and 2 are correct plug location. I've also added the connector they provided with the hole to prevent or help prevent back siphon. I'll leave the ATK off since I'm heading out of town. I don't trust it at the moment so better to be safe. My sump doesn't have a lot of room to handle a back siphon at the moment. If the ATK was filling above where I set it then there isn't much safety room and it will overflow. I'll deal with it when I get back I guess and just ask my daughter to manually top off nightly.

 

[User1]

Is it me or something I did or does the ATK seem to get set to "OFF" on its own? I thought it was supposed to be set to AUTO but this morning I see that it is off. Not sure what the correct position is.

ATK_4_1 = OFF
SWX4_1 = OPEN
SWX4_2 = OPEN

 

[rkpetersen]

Is it me or something I did or does the ATK seem to get set to "OFF" on its own?

The ATK will indeed set itself to OFF and require a manual reset to AUTO any time an Error condition occurs. The Error condition occurs when your ATK has been running for too long at one time. The length of time depends on your coding (please copy and post it if you want it looked at.) With both of those sensors being open, I would suspect one of two situations:

1. Your sump is too large and/or evaporation too great for the ATK to do the job within the current failsafe restrictions. If this is the case, you need to either increase the When On time or decrease the Min Time time in your code.

2. There's something wrong with your ATK system such that it's not pumping an appropriate amount of water. Bad pump, bad tubing connection, float valve too high and blocking the outlet, sensors placed at the wrong level, empty reservoir, etc. Requires testing the system.

 

[User1]

The ATK will indeed set itself to OFF and require a manual reset to AUTO any time an Error condition occurs. The Error condition occurs when your ATK has been running for too long at one time. The length of time depends on your coding (please copy and post it here). With both of those sensors being open, I would suspect one of two situations:

1. Your sump is too large and/or evaporation to great for the ATK to do the job in the time available. If this is the case, you need to adjust either increase the When On time or decrease the Min Time time.

2. There's something wrong with your ATK system such that it's not pumping an appropriate amount of water. Bad pump, bad connection, float valve too high and blocking the outlet, etc. Requires testing the system.

@rkpetersen thanks. I was not aware it would set itself to off so thanks for the explanation. I guess I'm going to have to see what might be the cause. My sump isn't large and if I had to guess evaporation is 1 gallon max, if that. I'm not sure I understand the float valve being to high but maybe that is the white nylon screw? I left it has it came out of the box. Wait, maybe I did turn it not knowing what it did now that I think about it. I think it is turned right, all the way. Not sure if that is default or not nor am I aware what it does.

Code was using the wizard - default I think more or less:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Swx4_1 OPEN Then ON
If Swx4_2 CLOSED Then OFF
When On > 005:00 Then OFF
Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF
Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

 

[rkpetersen]

The float valve is a failsafe for the ATK. When the water level is high, the valve floats up and blocks the water exit from the sensor block. This really shouldn't be the case for you, unless the float itself is angled downward very sharply. The angle on the float can be (carefully) adjusted by applying pressure on the joint, which clicks with each slight change in angle.

The white nylon screw should be screwed into the top of the grey bar (not tightly), but isn't the cause of your problem.

If you've turn the ATK to ON, and it squirts water out of the sensor module at a reasonable rate, and then you turn it to OFF and it stops after a few seconds, then it's probably working ok. In this case, you may be getting an error from just running too long. Your code looks ok and is set to the standard numbers. If this is the issue, changing the Min Time statement to 'Min Time 030:00 Then OFF' maybe fix it. What that does is let your ATK work every half hour if necessary, rather than every hour.

Couple of other things: Don't forget that if you remove a significant amount of water from your tank, or if you do a water change and add less back than you took out, your ATK will still try to do its job and likely give you another error condition from running too long. Second, another thing you can look at is your Output Log (fourth button from the left at the top of the main Fusion page), for late last night and early this morning. IF you have logging enabled for your ATK, this will tell you if when it went on and off. I personally enable Logging for all of my Apex devices and modules; you never know when you might need to troubleshoot something, and the log of exactly what happened is often the easiest way to figure it out. For example, I was setting up multiple heaters, and without the log, I wouldn't have been able to tweak my code properly.

 

[User1]

The float valve is a failsafe for the ATK. When the water level is high, the valve floats up and blocks the water exit from the sensor block. This really shouldn't be the case for you, unless the float itself is angled downward very sharply. The angle on the float can be (carefully) adjusted by applying pressure on the joint, which clicks with each slight change in angle.

The white nylon screw should be screwed into the top of the grey bar (not tightly), but isn't the cause of your problem.

If you've turn the ATK to ON, and it squirts water out of the sensor module at a reasonable rate, and then you turn it to OFF and it stops after a few seconds, then it's probably working ok. In this case, you may be getting an error from just running too long. Your code looks ok and is set to the standard numbers. If this is the issue, changing the Min Time statement to 'Min Time 030:00 Then OFF' maybe fix it. What that does is let your ATK work every half hour if necessary, rather than every hour.

Couple of other things: Don't forget that if you remove a significant amount of water from your tank, or if you do a water change and add less back than you took out, your ATK will still try to do its job and likely give you another error condition from running too long. Second, another thing you can look at is your Output Log (fourth button from the left at the top of the main Fusion page), for late last night and early this morning. IF you have logging enabled for your ATK, this will tell you if when it went on and off. I personally enable Logging for all of my Apex devices and modules; you never know when you might need to troubleshoot something, and the log of exactly what happened is often the easiest way to figure it out. For example, I was setting up multiple heaters, and without the log, I wouldn't have been able to tweak my code properly.

@rkpetersen thanks again. I didn't have logging enabled but I do now. Question - the water level of the sump should be between the bottom and top electronic eye, correct? Or that is where I should set the water level? Or is it a little lower than that.

 

[rkpetersen]

@rkpetersenQuestion - the water level of the sump should be between the bottom and top electronic eye, correct? Or that is where I should set the water level? Or is it a little lower than that.

Here's what you should be seeing when everything is working a-ok. The module is in the return compartment of the sump. The water level should be cycling just below and then just up to the level of the low sensor. NOT between the two. It's a common misconception. With this device, the top sensor is another failsafe; it should stay open all the time (except when in feed mode or the return pump is otherwise off). It should never be closed when your system is unattended.

I set an MPR probe rack in the same compartment. It's got a nice horizontal surface at the waterline. I put it at the exact level of the low sensor, which gives me a quick visual reference to the proper water level, rather than trying to eyeball the sensor itself every time.

 

[User1]

@rkpetersen Thanks again for the help. Looks like I had a pretty reliable week with the ATK and travel after the tips provided.

Have a great weekend!

 

[rkpetersen]

Glad to help. The ATK can be a tricky piece of gear to get set up and functioning properly, and the default settings definitely aren't for everyone.

Have a nice weekend yourself (looks like we're finally getting some sun here in the gloomy nw!)

 

[techhnyne]

My atk just beeps for hours. I reset it atleast 5 times a day. Im about to just do manual top offs its becoming an annoyance trying to get it to work right

 

[Sleepydoc]

My atk just beeps for hours. I reset it atleast 5 times a day. Im about to just do manual top offs its becoming an annoyance trying to get it to work right

Are you using it in stand alone mode or with an Apex controller?

 

[Mark Gray]

My atk just beeps for hours. I reset it atleast 5 times a day. Im about to just do manual top offs its becoming an annoyance trying to get it to work right

Hi I have 3 running 2 for Aquariums 1 for my RODI storage tank in the Garage. Are you running it stand alone or hooked to an apex? If it is stand alone not sure I can help you much

 

[siggy]

I have been topping off manually for 2 months last week bought pump #3 and after a week its grinding, the first 2 worked fine but bit the dust because of Kalk. after every Water change it requires adjustment and if you run dry adjust and any foam or bubbles or dosing in the sum can cause a film build on the sensor so now your not topping. Also have to keep your eye on the check valve Had more than a few siphons and after sitting for 6 weeks the float valve is clogged so it not in use. Now when its set and working it works, just be on it All the time, keep it filled before it goes dry, clean everything on a two week schedule and keep any dosing down stream in another compartment and you might have time left to enjoy your tank.

 

[Joe Carioti]

My atk just beeps for hours. I reset it atleast 5 times a day. Im about to just do manual top offs its becoming an annoyance trying to get it to work right

Sounds like your ATK is running past the programmed “max time on” and shutting off as a precaution. If standalone, this should learn over time. If connected to an Apex, you need to adjust the programming of the auto top off. “When On > 003:00 Then OFF” is my ATO code. If the pump runs for more than 3 mins, it shuts off and raises an alarm.

 

[iemsparticus]

I’ve used it since it was released a year ago with zero problems.