Are we ruining the hobby???

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PacificEastAquaculture

PacificEastAquaculture

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Part of the pyramid scheme name game is to jack up the price online and then run "live sales" to create a frenzied panic of grabbing a "deal" before the other guy. Truth be told, the price is still jacked but folks feel they are getting a deal on that $1500 1 inch frag. More power to them, good marketing. Problem is that $1500 frag will be a different color long term in your tank and by the time you grow it enough to sell a frag the bottom falls out of the market and maybe you can sell it for $100. No one ever actually sees the originally promoted color, but it still sells because of the name alone! At a recent swap someone was selling HR Acro for $1200 and his big pitch to customers was "hey you can make a bunch of frags and clean up".
 
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PacificEastAquaculture

PacificEastAquaculture

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To be blunt, most vendors/distributors figure that's your problem to solve. Being these animals are perishable, the objective is to move them down the supply chain as quickly as possible. Once the animal has been sold to the end consumer, everyone has made their $$$ and mission accomplished.
So true. It's treated like fresh fish, sell it before it stinks--and maybe a bit after o_O
 

hotdrop

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No one ever actually sees the originally promoted color.
There are clearly lots of scams in the industry but at least for the more popular names you actually somewhat know what you are getting. Bubble gum Digi and Green Slimmer are some named lower cost coral . Its a known quantity regardless of if I buy it from your shop or WWC.
I hopped around on your site for a bit just to see how you handle the naming thing, and honestly you could probably stand to name and promote some of your best frags. I hope you don't mind that I pick on you a little bit, but putting a few of your best PEA named frags on the font page instead of all the big static banners would probably help you sell a few more nice frags. Honestly if you pick your best stuff an charge a premium because its your best stuff everybody wins, the name is just signalling, it says that this is our product, we grow these well and we think they look fantastic so they bear our name. When I start seeing great looking second generation PEA named frags showing up in pictures and in the classifieds that will be a testament to your brand and ability to pick high quality frags.
 

Eva Rose

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My personal opinion is that for many folks the joy of simply keeping the animals alive and thriving is gone.

I see it all the time. A new customer comes in and sets up a reef tank. At first they are thrilled by Nemo and serpent Starfish and Nassarius snails and gently moving leather corals in the flow. Soon they grow bored with the basics and venture to the internet and then they come back in after a few months spouting out all kinds of designer coral names and are self proclaimed experts on reefkeeping. Within 6 to 12 months they have burned through enough livestock and money that they leave the hobby and perpetuate the old myth that saltwater aquariums and reefs in particular are impossible to keep. In the meantime the store owner is all to happy to accommodate the newbie, striking while the iron is hot. Ich, algae, and dead corals--the all too common lament of new hobbyists. The fun hobby turned into a chore that put a rift between husband and wife. All too common a scenario and all so easily avoidable.

While the designer names in and of themselves have not much to do with the above scenario, they do in my opinion lessen the value of the animal itself. No longer is the high priced designer named newest released frag just a coral. It's a status symbol, a potential money maker, an intsant sense of accomplishment, ahh yes--a pyramid scheme! As a hobbyist I don't hear as much joy in reefkeeping as much as I hear about collecting the designer coral and one ups manship. I must admit at giving out a chuckle whenever I see "new release" as though the coral was hatched in someone's basement or concocted out of a mix of chemicals on a lab bench. I started in the hobby when just the thought of keeping a coral in an aquarium was an exciting goal. I personally find the name game boring.

OK, so you think I'm just a stodgy curmudgeon. After 50 years in this hobby I still am enthralled by simple things. A serpent starfish crawling out of a crevice at feeding time, a Nassarius snail popping up from the sand, a beautiful group of mature leather corals swaying in the flow, a pair of Clownfish guarding their eggs, watching a goby hop around the rocks or a blenny scurrying to its hole in a rock. The mesmerizing actions of Xenia!

To each their own. Some folks chuckle at my simplistic thoughts, others sit back and find joy in their frag tank of sticks with big price tags. Live and let live my friends. Just one man's opinions.
Appreciate your philosophy & your business! In any hobby people should enjoy what they like, not the “hot” items of the day. I live where there are not a lot of saltwater tanks & those that have them tend to be hardcore frag & SPS enthusiasts. That is fine, if you enjoy that. I appreciate the beauty in such tanks. But for those hobbyists like me that love soft corals or easy LPS, it is frustrating.

Thank you for offering some easy, “common” corals among your livestock which are both hardy and beautiful. You carry a great variety that can accommodate all tastes in the hobby. I can’t wait to order some of the Gorgonian corals that sold out on your site! They were stunning and you offered several types.

There does need to more offered that is a reasonable price and easier to maintain. Hobbyists that are kids to those on fixed income should be able to enjoy a reef tank. Once at a reef show a man in his seventies came up to my husband & I to say he was just getting back into the hobby. He came to the show to get some corals. But he was dismayed at the outrageous prices & for frags at that. We walked around with him to show him some easy, very affordable corals.

So thanks to you for having great options for your customers. BTW my husband wanted to pick our clownfish pair & selected some gorgeous Perculas from your website. We love our clowns, which are active and vibrant. Just know when a vendor (like yourself) focuses on the health (not the status) of livestock, customers do take notice and appreciate it.
‘T
 

Steve_Skullsplitter0

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I think it's a fad that will pass. But for now ...its like Pokemon. Gotta frag em all !

Sorry to say but my collection is awesome.
 

Nano10

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One thing I know for sure is while I support the free market and accept the market sets the prices things are priced high in relation to what you get(especially equipment wise)in this hobby. Mostly it seems because it's very niche with not the biggest consumer base but a good number of that base has money to burn so manufacturers and vendors can charge more and get that price.

Corals I kind of understand because its purely subjective. A pretty somewhat rare coral is worth what ever someone will pay...even if it's a ridiculous price.

But equipment can be valued on the parts and tech involved and in that regard the prices in this hobby are out of whack in that the same exact tech used in another field wouldn't command anywhere near the same price.

For example theres no reason lighting a decent sized tank with leds should cost thousands unless you go generic blackbox or diy.
 

Paul B

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I know after we move and I setup another DT for my own personal enjoyment, I will be buying fish & coral from @PacificEastAquaculture!
Yes, but you are never going to move or set up your own tank. You like Florida to much. :D
I have been saving the house next door to me for you for months. When someone goes to look at it, I tell them there are snakes inside.

Pacific East Aquaculture, you are a Geezer as I am. Nice to meet you and that is a great article.
I also like old school, leathers and LPS and really don't see the pull of designer corals or even fish.

I really don't like designer clownfish as I feel they are just silly, but that's just me I know there is a big market for them just like those Day Glo tetra's sold by the millions to fresh water Geeks when they first came out.

I also think this hobby is just artificially expensive and there is no need to spend multiple thousands on it especially with E Bay now.
People get out of this hobby constantly and sell their stuff which in many cases is almost brand new.
And if you are a little handy, there is almost nothing you have to buy. But I haven't been able to build a fish yet. :oops:
 
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PacificEastAquaculture

PacificEastAquaculture

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Yes, but you are never going to move or set up your own tank. You like Florida to much. :D
I have been saving the house next door to me for you for months. When someone goes to look at it, I tell them there are snakes inside.

Pacific East Aquaculture, you are a Geezer as I am. Nice to meet you and that is a great article.
I also like old school, leathers and LPS and really don't see the pull of designer corals or even fish.

I really don't like designer clownfish as I feel they are just silly, but that's just me I know there is a big market for them just like those Day Glo tetra's sold by the millions to fresh water Geeks when they first came out.

I also think this hobby is just artificially expensive and there is no need to spend multiple thousands on it especially with E Bay now.
People get out of this hobby constantly and sell their stuff which in many cases is almost brand new.
And if you are a little handy, there is almost nothing you have to buy. But I haven't been able to build a fish yet. :oops:
Geeser? Now I do feel old :eek:
 

HawaiianReef

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I believe it's consumer competition. Hobbyist wanting to out do the other. Kinda like, "my truck is bigger than your suv" syndrome.
This goes beyond reefing.
I've been saying, the American Dream of the 50s was to get a good job, have s family, a house and a car. Now the dream is to be sure you have 10 percent more than the person living next to you.
Happiness is not getting what you want. It's wanting what you have.
 

RedPhotog

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I think I am one of the hobbyists who got distracted with all the tech and modern methods, and I didnt really know where to start. I remember asking for advice on forums, forums are something that werent around when I was last in the hobby, people would ask me, "what kind of tank, do you want, what do you want it do for you?" And all I can think to myself was, "I dont know, I just want to keep fish that dont die". Keeping fish turned into keeping coral, and now I am testing for things I never heard of when I was in the hobby 15 years ago.

I do my best to keep things minimal and simple. I do think there is a hipster pi*%ing match with some hobbyists in terms of using gear and keeping designer corals. I look at stuff online and see peoples tank threads, and they have gear in the first week of cycling that you should have after 1 or 2 years. Dont know if you need an algae scrubber, refugium, calcium reactor, carbon and GFO skimmer, 3 part auto doser, etc, when you dont have anything in there to consume anything? Its a pi$#ing match. And then people get online, youtube specifically to gain knowledge and tutorials about reefing, and "influencers" are all telling new hobbyists you need this and need that, all while plugging products getting their own agendas made.

I have a 40 gallon mixed reef, I use activated carbon and filter floss. I do a WC every 2 weeks, and change the carbon in between. System has been up for almost 2 years with no problems.

IMG_7620.jpg
 

Paul B

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I realize a lot of aquarium products are a rip off but not all of them. I invented and patented this thing called "The Majano Wand" and it sells for about $130.00.
Many people ask me why it cost so much and that is a fair question. When I invented the thing I figured it would sell for about $50.00.

I don't sell it or own the business or have it manufactured but I do know that the profit from that device is $7.00.
The manufacturer, which is a heart valve manufacturer in the US makes most of the money, then the shipper and wholesaler. They all need to make a profit because they are in business.

The patent cost me about $30,000.00 and the start up manufacturing costs with design and molds were maybe another $8,000.00.

There is not an enormous amount of money made on a lot of this stuff.
If you wanted to sell tank raised fish the cost of the fish is the least part of the cost. Heating, electricity, insurance, rent, staff, food and especially shipping take up the most of the money.
See what it costs to ship a gallon of water overnight across the country.
Yesterday I mailed a small laptop to Florida overnight. It cost me $140.00 :D
 

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