Bacterial Driven System: A Recipe for Success.

[stephanjupillat]

I have been dosing nopox for about a year now and it works very well for no3 reduction. Nothing for po4. So I run gfo and have determined I need to change it every 10 days so it stays around .05 to .07. 60 gallon net and my nitrates were too much for nopox and had to add a sulfur denitrator. If I added more nopox I got pink slime blooms in the sump. Finally at 5 no3 and will lower nopox until I hit around 7 to 10.

I have a question for all you carbon dosers that are keeping bubble tip anemones. Mine hasn’t been happy for a while and I’m wondering if it’s due to carbon dosing. He’s always on the move and deflated. Rarely looks happy. I’ve never had him even bubble. When he split and I gave 1 away, 2 days later I receive a pic showing the split happy and bubbled up! So anyone else having issues with bta’s and carbon dosing. My rock anemones don’t seem to care.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have been dosing nopox for about a year now and it works very well for no3 reduction. Nothing for po4. So I run gfo and have determined I need to change it every 10 days so it stays around .05 to .07. 60 gallon net and my nitrates were too much for nopox and had to add a sulfur denitrator. If I added more nopox I got pink slime blooms in the sump. Finally at 5 no3 and will lower nopox until I hit around 7 to 10.

I have a question for all you carbon dosers that are keeping bubble tip anemones. Mine hasn’t been happy for a while and I’m wondering if it’s due to carbon dosing. He’s always on the move and deflated. Rarely looks happy. I’ve never had him even bubble. When he split and I gave 1 away, 2 days later I receive a pic showing the split happy and bubbled up! So anyone else having issues with bta’s and carbon dosing. My rock anemones don’t seem to care.

My bubble tip only appeared to suffer when my doses of vinegar were very high.

 

[CaptPatrick]

@SunnyX
I’ve got my nutrient levels down pretty low, NO3 3.5ppm and PO4 .03ppm, I still have chaeto and GFO in the sump at this time. So I should be able to remove both of those, begin feeding a little heavier and start at a fraction of the recommended dose on bacto-balance? As long as I am starting with some nutrients in the water it should not bottom them out since the bacto-balance contains nitrates and phosphates?

 

[Teku1998]

Hey there @SunnyX,

I am struggling to repair the symptoms of my neglect in our ~180gal twv reef.

I used to have thriving rock flowers, aiptasia, and never-ending growth of xenia. Recently, noticed the aiptasia is *mostly* all gone, the RFAs are shrinking, and the xenia is all but gone.
I finally did some tests and found alk at 5.1, no3 at ~80, and po4 at 0.5. Mg, Cal, K, and Salinity are all on target (or slightly high) and PH is around 8.0. I have been focusing on bringing the alk up slowly first over the last two weeks and I'm at 7.0 now (and still on the way up, target around ~9 for now).

What is the best way I can decrease the no3 down below 40-50 as a starting point so that I can begin dosing Vodka within the 100:1 ratio window?

Once my nutrients return to a normal level (<10ppm NO3, <0.1 ppm PO4) I plan on buying the aforementioned TM products.

I have NoPox on hand that I have not used, some Vodka, and a sump full of chaeto at my disposal. After moving into our first house this spring I have not gotten around to re-building my water change setup, so large water changes are a bit of a struggle (hence I have not done any....).

The display has a lot of red slime, and some green on the sand which is flat and not hairy, I'm unsure what type of algae it is exactly. The main issue is the decline in coral and the red slime. Fish seem happy. I do have lots of snails and a cleaner shrimp. There is no risk to those inverts, right?

Any advice is appreciated. My current plan was to raise alk and then drop NO3, but I am not sure the safest way to do that with my current parameters! Thanks

 

[Treefer32]

@SunnyX First, great write up! I've been carbon dosing now for about a year on my 340 gallon mixed reef. I run many types of filtration as my carbon dosing levels are very high to maintain my target nutrients. First off, and most important, the problems I'm solving for:

1. High nitrates in a mixed reef - I hit nitrates of 40 ppm while dosing 55 ml a day of vodka.
2. High phosphates - hit .40 ppm while carbon dosing 55 ml per day.
3. Coral growth stunted
4. Corals dieing off - I've lost close to $1000 worth of hammers, elegance, mostly LPS corals. Even my toad stool started losing flesh.
5. No water changes

With that said, the filtration I'm running to just to maintain cleanliness:
1. Oversized skimmer - rated for 500 gallons moderate load.
2. Well established Algae turf scrubber
3. I ran matrix rock in a cannister filter, have since put the 25 micron cartridge back due to vodka dosing (will identify reasons later).
4. Just installed a red Sea 1200 Roller mat - Going through rolls of paper within 10-12 days right now. (I believe this to be due to vodka dosing based on #3)


So, that said, My response to the issues was to gradually increase my vodka dosing. I've gone from being at 55ml per for the past year to 75 ml per day over the last 3 months. Since then, My nitrates have gone from 40 down to 27. And my phosphates have been reduced to .08 (in combination with dosing very lightly phosphate-e - around 6 ml once to twice per week depending on if levels are increasing or remaining the same.)

So, it's working to get things down to where I would like. I would like nitrates to remain steady at 15 - 25, and phosphates to remain between .05 and .1. I have a couple SPS that do not like the lowered nutrient values at all. They've endured some bleaching, but many polyps are still open and appear to be coming back as they adapt to the new nutrient levels. Other SPS are flourishing now that things are more in check..

So, if things are going in the right direction, why this write up? Well, simply put, bacterial slime! I think the slime itself was possibly damaging some of my corals. I have slime covering my overflow teeth, my gyres were covered in slime (I'm not sure how they even were running, so much slime on the blades) within 2-3 weeks they have slime all over them). My skimmer is constantly pulling out black water. The paper on my roller mat is covered in a thick jellylike slime, and my 25 micron cannister filter was covered in slime as well. I'm having to wash basically everything in the tank within 2-3 weeks due to the amount of bacterial slime.

My PH probe is showing PH just getting to 8.05 and 7.97 at night. It used to easily get to 8.2 - 8.4 during the day and 8.1 at night. Going from 55 ml a day to 75 ml per day has had huge impacts.

My return pump intake screen is covered in slime within 3-4 days reducing my flow to the tank. I have a reeflo hammerhead external return pump. I'm scared to take it a part to see how much slime is inside it.

I don't know how healthy it is for that much thick slime to be in the water column for fish to be swimming in. Maybe adding in the reef mat and 25 micron cannister cartridge will solve the problem, but I can't afford to replace a $30 roller of roller paper 3-4 times a month. . .

So, how do you deal with bacterial slime? I like where my nutrients are going, but, I don't like the slime monster!

 

[SunnyX]

@SunnyX
I’ve got my nutrient levels down pretty low, NO3 3.5ppm and PO4 .03ppm, I still have chaeto and GFO in the sump at this time. So I should be able to remove both of those, begin feeding a little heavier and start at a fraction of the recommended dose on bacto-balance? As long as I am starting with some nutrients in the water it should not bottom them out since the bacto-balance contains nitrates and phosphates?

Hello,

Yes, should be good to go based on those nutrient levels. I would leave the GFO in there until its exhausted but take offline the refugium.

Why are you moving away from the fuge and GFO? I know that in my case I was never able to grow much in a fuge and saw better results with bacteria, but are you looking to accomplish or improve upon?

-Sonny

 

[CaptPatrick]

Hello,

Yes, should be good to go based on those nutrient levels. I would leave the GFO in there until its exhausted but take offline the refugium.

Why are you moving away from the fuge and GFO? I know that in my case I was never able to grow much in a fuge and saw better results with bacteria, but are you looking to accomplish or improve upon?

-Sonny

Really I was just looking for a way to keep nutrients more stable and under control, then after reading about the benefits of carbon dosing for corals it gave me even more of a reason. Since my last post I had cut my GFO in half trying to use a “maintenance” dose not necessarily to drop po4 but more maintain it and it has been staying steady between .03-.05. At times I have had to dose Neonitro to bump my no3 from bottoming. My chaeto seems to do its job and I trim it about once a month, but without running this tank without it I really can’t say how effective it is. Thank you for taking the time to respond. With the barcode balance would there ever be a need to dose nitrate or phosphate on top of the bacto balance? Can your nutrients bottom out using bacto balance alone?

 

[xmjxflipx]

Question. When going away for extended periods like a week or two and you have to feed heavy to maintain the balance. What do you have to do or dose to make sure the nutrients don't bottom out during an extended leave? Besides auto feeding fish more, do you have a doser with aminos to supplement?

 

[bandando]

@SunnyX any experience with DSB?

I'll start tomorrow with carbon dosing.
I have nitrate and phosphate too low (PO4 <0,01).
As indicated from TM, I begin with NP Plus for increasing phospate.
I have DSB and live rock, I hope it is not a trouble.

 

[reefluvrr]

Hi @SunnyX ,

I have been carbon dosing for many years now. I would like to ask what you may have noticed with under skimming or over skimming while carbon dosing.

With my current tank that I am running which is about 50 gallon, I am using an Maxspect Aeraqua Protein Skimmer. Way oversized. I mainly wanted the larger skimmer for oxygenation and higher pH. However, I noticed when I turn off my skimmer, I get much quicker and stronger nutrient reduction versus keeping the skimmer on while carbon dosing.

I am now wondering if over skimming may be removing too much bacteria too quickly before even my corals have a chance to "eat" them since I have seen my corals slowly starve away. (I never keep my PO4 below 0.05)

 

[cdnco2004]

Original article: http://reefsite.com/bacterial-driven-system-a-recipe-for-success/

Sunny, great write up. Got a question, what do you think of these products for bacteria? https://reef-workshop.com/ I found Reef Wokshop from a Reef Builders blog post about Reef Workshops Anti-Cyano kit. After reading the article I ordered the Anti-Cyano Kit as well as their No3/Po4 product since I have been fighting high No3 and Po4. I am not using any GFO or other media, have some cheto in the fuge. After reading your write up it makes me wonder if these bacteria packs I got form them would do the same. Here is what they say is in them.

No3/Po4 Symbio® is a unique formula made up of 5 marine bacterial strains, combined with a set of bio-enzymes and organic carbon, specifically selected for their effectiveness in eliminating nitrates and phosphates from your reef aquarium. No3/Po4 Symbio® transforms these into biomass which is an optimal nutrient source for corals, sponges, microphagous filter feeders as well as for the development of micro and macro fauna. No3/Po4 Symbio® is thus an effective, natural and fast solution to regulate nitrate and phosphate rates in your reef aquarium.

Bacto-Symbio® is a product made up of a highly concentrated set of 8 marine bacterial strains, a combination of bio-enzymes and ribozyme biomolecules, vitamins B12, D, D3 and unsaturated omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. The unique formula of Bacto-Symbio® was developed to enhance the bacterial support of live rocks, allowing for optimal biological filtration and providing a perfect balance to your reef aquarium ecosystem. By stimulating the transformation of organic matter into biomass, consumed by microphagous filter feeders as well as microfauna, and ensuring the elimination of undesirable algae present in your reef aquarium, Bacto-Symbio® is the ideal supplement that will provide vitality and energy to your fish and corals thanks to its combination of vitamins B12, D, D3 and unsaturated omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids.

Anti-Cyano Symbio® is a product made up of a unique formula of 7 marine bacterial strains, associated with a set of bio-enzymes and living micro-organisms, specially selected for their effectiveness in triggering the biological elimination process of cyanobacteria present in your reef aquarium. An effective, natural and safe solution for your aquarium and its inhabitants, Anti-Cyano Symbio® attacks directly the root of the cyanobacteria, the prokaryotes, rather than its surface, thus guaranteeing an integral and lasting action.

No3/Po4 Symbio® Kit : Usefulness and Benefits​

✔ Eliminates Nitrates and Phosphates in your reef aquarium.
✔ Fights against the emergence and growth of unwanted algae.
✔ Strengthens biological filtration and bacterial colony development.
✔ Promotes growth and deepening of coral colors.

Anti-Cyano Symbio® Kit : Usefulness and Benefits​

✔ Eliminates 100% of the cyanobacteria present in the aquarium.
✔ Regulates Nitrate and Phosphate levels.
✔ Fights against the emergence and development of unwanted algae.
✔ Strengthens biological filtration and the development of bacterial colonies.

What are your thoughts?​

 

[SunnyX]

Really I was just looking for a way to keep nutrients more stable and under control, then after reading about the benefits of carbon dosing for corals it gave me even more of a reason. Since my last post I had cut my GFO in half trying to use a “maintenance” dose not necessarily to drop po4 but more maintain it and it has been staying steady between .03-.05. At times I have had to dose Neonitro to bump my no3 from bottoming. My chaeto seems to do its job and I trim it about once a month, but without running this tank without it I really can’t say how effective it is. Thank you for taking the time to respond. With the barcode balance would there ever be a need to dose nitrate or phosphate on top of the bacto balance? Can your nutrients bottom out using bacto balance alone?

Hello,

If you're worried about bottoming out the nutrients, you could always increase the dosage of NP-Bacto Balance. I had to do some trial and error in order to get the right dosage, 2ML daily, for my setup. At 2.5-3ML per day my glass was getting dirtier much quicker than usual, which was an indication for me to lower my dosages.

But really, if you're feeding the system very well you should never run into an issue of a lack of nutrients. One of the main benefits of carbon dosing is that you can feed the aquarium heavily without building up nutrients that would impede coral growth.

There is no magic formula or dosage guidance that I can recommend as each system is different. You will need to adjust feeding and carbon dosing until you have reached a stable balance.

-Sonny

 

[SunnyX]

Question. When going away for extended periods like a week or two and you have to feed heavy to maintain the balance. What do you have to do or dose to make sure the nutrients don't bottom out during an extended leave? Besides auto feeding fish more, do you have a doser with aminos to supplement?

Hello,

In those cases you could setup an autodoser to provide things such as Amino acids, Selcon, or other foods to enrich the system. But, provided that you have an auto feeder you would not need to take those extra steps. So long as you are not carbon dosing during your absence, there should be no reason for the nutrients to bottom out.

-Sonny

 

[SunnyX]

@SunnyX any experience with DSB?

I'll start tomorrow with carbon dosing.
I have nitrate and phosphate too low (PO4 <0,01).
As indicated from TM, I begin with NP Plus for increasing phospate.
I have DSB and live rock, I hope it is not a trouble.

Hello,

I have run carbon dosing with a DSB in the past without issue. Provided that you are not disturbing the sandbed you should be ok.

-Sonny

 

[SunnyX]

Hi @SunnyX ,

I have been carbon dosing for many years now. I would like to ask what you may have noticed with under skimming or over skimming while carbon dosing.

With my current tank that I am running which is about 50 gallon, I am using an Maxspect Aeraqua Protein Skimmer. Way oversized. I mainly wanted the larger skimmer for oxygenation and higher pH. However, I noticed when I turn off my skimmer, I get much quicker and stronger nutrient reduction versus keeping the skimmer on while carbon dosing.

I am now wondering if over skimming may be removing too much bacteria too quickly before even my corals have a chance to "eat" them since I have seen my corals slowly starve away. (I never keep my PO4 below 0.05)

Hello,

Over skimming can be a real problem, especially if it is removing the nutrients that the bacteria thrive on too quickly from the water column.

Most of the time, if the skimmer is too large you actually wont be skimming as efficiently as if you had a right sized skimmer. Bigger is not always better when it comes to skimming.

If the Skimmer is indeed producing ample amounts of dark skimmate and you are worried about the withdrawal of nutrients I would suggest that you place a timer on the skimmer and operate it for only 8-12 hours per day. Perhaps, set it up to it skims only after lights out, helping to bump Ph overnight.

Alternatively, you could always feed heavier!

-Sonny

 

[SunnyX]

Sunny, great write up. Got a question, what do you think of these products for bacteria? https://reef-workshop.com/ I found Reef Wokshop from a Reef Builders blog post about Reef Workshops Anti-Cyano kit. After reading the article I ordered the Anti-Cyano Kit as well as their No3/Po4 product since I have been fighting high No3 and Po4. I am not using any GFO or other media, have some cheto in the fuge. After reading your write up it makes me wonder if these bacteria packs I got form them would do the same. Here is what they say is in them.

No3/Po4 Symbio® is a unique formula made up of 5 marine bacterial strains, combined with a set of bio-enzymes and organic carbon, specifically selected for their effectiveness in eliminating nitrates and phosphates from your reef aquarium. No3/Po4 Symbio® transforms these into biomass which is an optimal nutrient source for corals, sponges, microphagous filter feeders as well as for the development of micro and macro fauna. No3/Po4 Symbio® is thus an effective, natural and fast solution to regulate nitrate and phosphate rates in your reef aquarium.

Bacto-Symbio® is a product made up of a highly concentrated set of 8 marine bacterial strains, a combination of bio-enzymes and ribozyme biomolecules, vitamins B12, D, D3 and unsaturated omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. The unique formula of Bacto-Symbio® was developed to enhance the bacterial support of live rocks, allowing for optimal biological filtration and providing a perfect balance to your reef aquarium ecosystem. By stimulating the transformation of organic matter into biomass, consumed by microphagous filter feeders as well as microfauna, and ensuring the elimination of undesirable algae present in your reef aquarium, Bacto-Symbio® is the ideal supplement that will provide vitality and energy to your fish and corals thanks to its combination of vitamins B12, D, D3 and unsaturated omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids.

Anti-Cyano Symbio® is a product made up of a unique formula of 7 marine bacterial strains, associated with a set of bio-enzymes and living micro-organisms, specially selected for their effectiveness in triggering the biological elimination process of cyanobacteria present in your reef aquarium. An effective, natural and safe solution for your aquarium and its inhabitants, Anti-Cyano Symbio® attacks directly the root of the cyanobacteria, the prokaryotes, rather than its surface, thus guaranteeing an integral and lasting action.

No3/Po4 Symbio® Kit : Usefulness and Benefits​

✔ Eliminates Nitrates and Phosphates in your reef aquarium.
✔ Fights against the emergence and growth of unwanted algae.
✔ Strengthens biological filtration and bacterial colony development.
✔ Promotes growth and deepening of coral colors.

Anti-Cyano Symbio® Kit : Usefulness and Benefits​

✔ Eliminates 100% of the cyanobacteria present in the aquarium.
✔ Regulates Nitrate and Phosphate levels.
✔ Fights against the emergence and development of unwanted algae.
✔ Strengthens biological filtration and the development of bacterial colonies.

What are your thoughts?​

Hello,

Its tough to say as I have never used these products and would not know where to start. It would probably be best to post out a separate thread and ask for the experiences of others who have used this product.

Whatever you do, do it slowly. If you're going to be dosing all of these products at once and run into trouble it will be hard to go back and figure out what went wrong.

-Sonny

 

[CaptPatrick]

Hello,

If you're worried about bottoming out the nutrients, you could always increase the dosage of NP-Bacto Balance. I had to do some trial and error in order to get the right dosage, 2ML daily, for my setup. At 2.5-3ML per day my glass was getting dirtier much quicker than usual, which was an indication for me to lower my dosages.

But really, if you're feeding the system very well you should never run into an issue of a lack of nutrients. One of the main benefits of carbon dosing is that you can feed the aquarium heavily without building up nutrients that would impede coral growth.

There is no magic formula or dosage guidance that I can recommend as each system is different. You will need to adjust feeding and carbon dosing until you have reached a stable balance.

-Sonny

Thank you for the information, I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

 

[SunnyX]

Just thought I’d drop this quick video. Seven months of growth following the bacterial driven method. I post videos daily on Instagram @Reefsite

As you can see, the growth and health of the corals is out of this world:


video isn’t working for some so here is another link:

Seven months of growth 𤯠#saltwatertank #saltwateraquarium #aquarium

youtube.com

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Just thought I’d drop this quick video. Seven months of growth following the bacterial driven method. I post videos daily on Instagram @Reefsite

As you can see, the growth and health of the corals is out of this world:

Share more here!! I only see what you put here

 

[Miami Reef]

Oh my.

Absolutely mind blowing! What’s your current alkalinity in this tank @SunnyX ?