Bad Water Parameters, REEFER 250

[declannr]

Hi I’m looking for some help I recently got into reef keeping just over Christmas I started out with a reefer 170 and very quickly got bored of this and realised I should have gone for a reefer 250 so within a month I upgraded I set my reefer 250 up on the 04/02/2022 so it has been running almost 7 weeks I’ve water changed 25L every week since having it apart from 2-3 weeks where the sump cracked so I was using a water drum with a window cut out of it as my sump, I transferred everything from my reefer 170, all my live rock, Bio media, pump, heaters, all my water and I then topped up the rest with new salt water but new sand I was told by my LFS this would be okay as it would be like doing a big water change I asked if I would need a new bottle of beneficial bacteria but I was told I will be okay as there will be plenty on my bio media and plenty on my rocks so I transferred everything over and there has not been a problem with my fish, corals, or invertebrates it’s just my water parameters that I can’t work out and I’m hoping someone much more experianced can help me out, so the issue I’m having is my cycle it’s either not complete or not working as it should I’ve been testing weekly since having the tank and I can’t get my ammonia to drop completely to 0 so here is my question is it possible for the cycle to be working but still have the smallest amount of ammonia? Or is it still not cycled? Something has to be converting as I have high Nitrates which I have been trying to get down, I have 0.2 Ammonia which is the smallest amount this is present every single time I test it is always 0.2 sometimes Inbetween 0.2 and 0 so it will have a yellow tinge but never completely 0 I’ve tested RODI Water and it shows 0 I’ve also tested my friends which shows 0 so the kit is some what accurate

I use the Red Sea Multi Test Kit
here are the results I’ve got today
0.2 Ammonia
0.1-0.2 Nitrite
35-40 Nitrate
Pics are below to make your own judgements

I do 25L a week which is 10% and change my cotton filter once a week and give my filter sock a clean

its like my beneficial bacteria can’t convert the ammonia fast enough or something it’s puzzling my brain only other thing I’ve thought may be causing a problem is my new sump one of the walls is not high enough allowing the water to pass straight over and then into my return pump section is it possible this could be causing a problem? I’m thinking of cutting some acrylic peices and raising the walls a little so the water has no choice but the pass through all the media before hitting the rerun pump section

oh and lastly my stock list
Pyjama Wrasse
Clown Fish 2
Midas Blenny
Jade Wrasse
Regal Tang
Cleaner shrimp
2 snails
2 Hermit crab
Coral
Hairy green mushroom
Red mushroom

mushrooms were added 3-4 days ago
Regal tang 12/03/2022
Midas blenny 15/02/2022 but as the fish was added a fire fish that didn’t eat and a blue damsel was removed and traded in at my LFS fire fish didn’t eat damsel was a bully

any help would be appreciated I’m new to this probably done something stupid

Edit Ive been trying to calculate headless for a while I have a Jebao DCS7000 and it is taking 7 Seconds to fill a 1L Jug so one gallon is taking 31.5 seconds call it 30 to make the math easy meaning 2 Gallons Per Minute if my math is correct meaning only 120GPH could this be the reason my levels are bad due to headloss here and some pics of my pipe work lots of slack

 

[blaxsun]

First and foremost, don't panic. If everything is still alive then you don't have any issues with ammonia. Second, from your test results - this is what I see:

* Ammonia: 0-0.1 (normal)
* Nitrites (ignore)
* Nitrates: 25-40 (high but not dangerously high)

I would also test your alkalinity, pH and get a Red Sea phosphate test kit as well - because you may also have elevated phosphates.

Things you can do in the interim: get a few spare filter socks and replace with a new one every few days (not just clean and replace the same one). When you have a few, then you need to scrub and machine wash them (msg me if you'd like my laundry instructions). I usually have 4 weeks of spare filter socks on-hand. An alternative is to use the Red sea media basket, fill with filter floss and toss out every few days.

It doesn't look like you have a protein skimmer - so I'd invest in one. A Red Sea RSK 300 will help with the overall health of your tank by removing waste and helping with aeration (you may have to move or remove some bio media).

 

[declannr]

First and foremost, don't panic. If everything is still alive then you don't have any issues with ammonia. Second, from your test results - this is what I see:

* Ammonia: 0-0.1 (normal)
* Nitrites (ignore)
* Nitrates: 25-40 (high but not dangerously high)

I would also test your alkalinity, pH and get a Red Sea phosphate test kit as well - because you may also have elevated phosphates.

Things you can do in the interim: get a few spare filter socks and replace with a new one every few days (not just clean and replace the same one). When you have a few, then you need to scrub and machine wash them (msg me if you'd like my laundry instructions). I usually have 4 weeks of spare filter socks on-hand. An alternative is to use the Red sea media basket, fill with filter floss and toss out every few days.

It doesn't look like you have a protein skimmer - so I'd invest in one. A Red Sea RSK 300 will help with the overall health of your tank by removing waste and helping with aeration (you may have to move or remove some bio media).

Thankyou for the reply is it possible that my pump is not doing enough GPH even at max it fills a 1L jug up in 5 seconds which I’ve worked out at roughly 160GPH this is well under par I should be achieving 660GPH Or just under I’m thinking not enough water is filtering through my system not giving the bacteria enough time to convert it leaving me with 0.2 ammonia every single time I test is this a possibility? I’ve also done a pH test I’m getting 8.0-8.3ish how do I raise this as it looks more like 8.0 to me and you need 8.3 for corals? My only other theory is the water passing straight over the bio media and not through it, one other question why are my nitrates so high? Is there a reason?

 

[blaxsun]

8-8.3 pH is great - I wouldn't chase it further (it will naturally fluctuate during the day). 660Gph is going to be way too much flow (that's about what I run on my 750XXL). In general, you want about 3-5x flow.

Your total system is 65 gallons, so you've got about 2.5x flow. So yes, you could upgrade the pump to something like a Sicce Silent 1.5 or 2.0 (depending on what will fit).

Why are your nitrates elevated? Filtration. Your tank isn't capable of removing enough waste with the current configuration and bio load. A protein skimmer will help, an upgraded return pump will probably also help - but changing your filter socks more frequently and replacing with new/laundered ones will also help. Adding some more (and the right) cleanup crew could also help. You want 3-4 trochus snails, 2-3 turbo snails, a half dozen spiny astrea snails and 1-2 orange conches. A few nassarius snails couldn't hurt, either.

You can also look at something like Red Sea NOPOX to bring your levels down - though you should start at half the recommended dosage and expect a few weeks to pass before seeing any significant changes.

 

[declannr]

8-8.3 pH is great - I wouldn't chase it further (it will naturally fluctuate during the day). 660Gph is going to be way too much flow (that's about what I run on my 750XXL). In general, you want about 3-5x flow.

Your total system is 65 gallons, so you've got about 2.5x flow. So yes, you could upgrade the pump to something like a Sicce Silent 1.5 or 2.0 (depending on what will fit).

Why are your nitrates elevated? Filtration. Your tank isn't capable of removing enough waste with the current configuration and bio load. A protein skimmer will help, an upgraded return pump will probably also help - but changing your filter socks more frequently and replacing with new/laundered ones will also help. Adding some more (and the right) cleanup crew could also help. You want 3-4 trochus snails, 2-3 turbo snails, a half dozen spiny astrea snails and 1-2 orange conches. A few nassarius snails couldn't hurt, either.

You can also look at something like Red Sea NOPOX to bring your levels down - though you should start at half the recommended dosage and expect a few weeks to pass before seeing any significant changes.

It does say on red seas website, 660GPH for my tank, am I right in saying that is why I have 0.2 Ammonia because it physically can’t covert it quick enough due to the pump every single time I test I could test right after a water change 1 day later and it is still there am I wrong? That’s the way I’m seeing it, that’s how it works right? Or could it be due to passing over the media rather than through, I don’t have a huge bio load

2 Clowns
1 Regal Tang
1 Six Line Wrasse
1 Jade Wrasse
1 Midas Blenny
2 Hermit Crabs
2 Turbo Snails

I change 25L per week and clean my filter sock in the sink with a sponge replace with new cotton

I feed around 2-3 times a day generous amounts

thankyou for the reply been a massive help

 

[cdw79]

I'd definitely agree with @blaxsun that you could use more CUC. Not sure what sites sell to the UK but there are several package deals online that are supposedly rated for different display tank sizes, so that would be a good change.

I noticed you said you had a tang, and while I'm not going to go full tang police on you, regardless that's a heavy bio load from that fish alone, much less your hefty fish population for such an early point in your tank. Nothing in your stock list needs that frequent feeding though, so while your tank is still immature, I'd cut back to once a day for feeding to help with detritus build up (which your CUC almost certainly isn't dealing with since it's on the smaller side). If you can, amazon prime some nopox, I'm currently dosing it to help with some elevated phosphates and everyone here raves about the stuff

 

[damsels are not mean]

Nitrite is not a concern in saltwater, and it also can cause false high readings on nitrate. Your nitrate might be in a more normal range than it appears if the nitrite is truly elevated. Anyways there is not much you can do but wait if this is a cycling issue. Maybe dose prime or something if you are worried. But if the fish are not stressed that is a more accurate test than any hobbyist kit.

 

[declannr]

I'd definitely agree with @blaxsun that you could use more CUC. Not sure what sites sell to the UK but there are several package deals online that are supposedly rated for different display tank sizes, so that would be a good change.

I noticed you said you had a tang, and while I'm not going to go full tang police on you, regardless that's a heavy bio load from that fish alone, much less your hefty fish population for such an early point in your tank. Nothing in your stock list needs that frequent feeding though, so while your tank is still immature, I'd cut back to once a day for feeding to help with detritus build up (which your CUC almost certainly isn't dealing with since it's on the smaller side). If you can, amazon prime some nopox, I'm currently dosing it to help with some elevated phosphates and everyone here raves about the stuff

Am I on the right track with the pump? If it is not moving enough GPH could that be the reason for the ammonia not being converted fast enough? Thanks for the reply like I say always 0.2 ammonia I’ll get some more CUC

 

[declannr]

Nitrite is not a concern in saltwater, and it also can cause false high readings on nitrate. Your nitrate might be in a more normal range than it appears if the nitrite is truly elevated. Anyways there is not much you can do but wait if this is a cycling issue. Maybe dose prime or something if you are worried. But if the fish are not stressed that is a more accurate test than any hobbyist kit.

It could be because I’m feeding 3 times a day and only water change once a week on a Saturday this is also when I change my filter so could be the reason for high Nitrate build up, could also be because of my pump, I should be achieving 660GPH but only achieving 160GPH could this be the reason there is always 0.2 ammonia present? As the water is not being filtered quick enough for the bacteria to convert to Nitrite then Nitrate or is that not how it works?

 

[blaxsun]

It does say on red seas website, 660GPH for my tank

Aside from the fact that the stock Red Sea plumbing isn't capable of handling the combined 2,500Gph Red Sea "recommended" flow for my tank, I'd be sandblasting my fish. At 660 Gph in a 65 gallon tank your fish would be stuck to the overflow... While 160Gph might be a bit on the low side, you really don't need more than 3-5x flow (max). As I said, a Sicce 1.5 or 2.0 (again, depending on what will fit in your return chamber) would be a decent upgrade and give you somewhere between 250-300Gph (and you can adjust that down if need be).

 

[blaxsun]

It could be because I’m feeding 3 times a day and only water change once a week on a Saturday this is also when I change my filter so could be the reason for high Nitrate build up, could also be because of my pump, I should be achieving 660GPH but only achieving 160GPH could this be the reason there is always 0.2 ammonia present? As the water is not being filtered quick enough for the bacteria to convert to Nitrite then Nitrate or is that not how it works?

You should be changing your filter socks as soon as they start to overflow, and at the very least - every 5-7 days at a minimum. The detritus (etc.) that accumulates in the filter sock will also start to break down and leech back into the tank otherwise.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Lower the amount of feeding and Before proceeding further with any action, Take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API test kits and have them test: ammonia-nitrate-ph-salinity and see what readings they come up with.
Are you testing right after a water change?
Nitrate is elevated and at limit. Water changes should be reducing it. If you find the nitrate Is accurate, you can add chemipure Blue which will reduce the nitrate and keep it in check.
Adding liquid Bacteria such as Micro Bacter XLM will assist with denitrification. Also take water changes to bi-weekly and allow bacteria to fully establish.
Sounds like pump may be underpowered and you may want to consider Sicce 3.0 or 3.5 which has adjustable flow

 

[declannr]

Aside from the fact that the stock Red Sea plumbing isn't capable of handling the combined 2,500Gph Red Sea "recommended" flow for my tank, I'd be sandblasting my fish. At 660 Gph in a 65 gallon tank your fish would be stuck to the overflow... While 160Gph might be a bit on the low side, you really don't need more than 3-5x flow (max). As I said, a Sicce 1.5 or 2.0 (again, depending on what will fit in your return chamber) would be a decent upgrade and give you somewhere between 250-300Gph (and you can adjust that down if need be).

Okay mate thankyou for your help I’m just going of what it says on red sea they say 5-10X turn over so 330-660GPH, one last thing I want help with is the whole cycle thing am I right in saying that’s why I always have the 0.2 Ammonia? Because I’m only achieving 160GPH where as if I was achieving 330GPH it would be getting filtered faster converting the ammonia to nitrite then nitrate? That’s the way I’m viewing it my tank isn’t turning over fast enough to convert and leave ammonia at 0 like I say it is always 0.2 minimum this is the last thing pickling my mind, I think I’ve figured out what may be making my flow bad, my pump should achive between 1120-1580GPH they say Jebao loose 50% power after a year so 560GPH - 790GPH on my Vecton UV I never cut the hose tails to the appropriate size I’ll attach a pic to show what I mean cutting them down may improve flow I also have a lot of slack pipe I could trim

 

[blaxsun]

If you have fish alive in the tank - it's already cycled. The bacteria in the water column, substrate and rocks breaks down waste: ammonia » nitrite » nitrate, and then you filtration, skimmer and bio media work to remove excess waste and nutrients. Yes, it you have a lot of hose you should trim it to only what you need. This will improve flow a bit.

 

[declannr]

Lower the amount of feeding and Before proceeding further with any action, Take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API test kits and have them test: ammonia-nitrate-ph-salinity and see what readings they come up with.
Are you testing right after a water change?
Nitrate is elevated and at limit. Water changes should be reducing it. If you find the nitrate Is accurate, you can add chemipure Blue which will reduce the nitrate and keep it in check.
Adding liquid Bacteria such as Micro Bacter XLM will assist with denitrification. Also take water changes to bi-weekly and allow bacteria to fully establish.
Sounds like pump may be underpowered and you may want to consider Sicce 3.0 or 3.5 which has adjustable flow

Am I right in what I am saying with the pump? If it is only achieving 160GPH and I should be hitting 330GPH minimum could this be the reason 0.2 Ammonia is always present as the tank is not being circulated enough meaning the bacteria can not convert it as fast as it needs to to nitrite then nitrate? This is the last thing really hurting my brain, yeah going to reduce to 1 feed per day might miss Tommorow, sometimes I test 4 hours after but usually the day after and 0.2 ammonia is always present I feel asif the water does not circulate enough it is a little merky to, when you say Bi weekly do you mean every other week?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Am I right in what I am saying with the pump? If it is only achieving 160GPH and I should be hitting 330GPH minimum could this be the reason 0.2 Ammonia is always present as the tank is not being circulated enough meaning the bacteria can not convert it as fast as it needs to to nitrite then nitrate? This is the last thing really hurting my brain, yeah going to reduce to 1 feed per day might miss Tommorow, sometimes I test 4 hours after but usually the day after and 0.2 ammonia is always present I feel asif the water does not circulate enough it is a little merky to, when you say Bi weekly do you mean every other week?

Very possible on ammonia but not a total cause but will slow fow, required oxygen may be lacking.
Do a small morning and evening feeding and feed what can be consumed in 2-3 minutes.

 

[declannr]

If you have fish alive in the tank - it's already cycled. The bacteria in the water column, substrate and rocks breaks down waste: ammonia » nitrite » nitrate, and then you filtration, skimmer and bio media work to remove excess waste and nutrients. Yes, it you have a lot of hose you should trim it to only what you need. This will improve flow a bit.

Yes I understand that and then you are left with the waste product of nitrate which I have mainly because I’ve been feeding 3 times per day probably the reason it’s high, the question I’m asking is if my bacteria is responsible for the cycle of Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate why do I ALWAYS have 0.2 Ammonia I could test right now again I will have 0.2 ammonia I could do a water change and I will still have 0.2 ammonia what I’m asking is if my flow was improved to 330GPH would I finally hit 0 on my Ammonia as my bacteria is processing more water, sorry if I sound stupid just the way I’m seeing it is the ammonia is being produced but because my pump is slow it physically can’t get it down to 0 as it’s not moving the water around fast enough

 

[declannr]

Very possible on ammonia but not a total cause but will slow fow, required oxygen may be lacking.
Do a small morning and evening feeding and feed what can be consumed in 2-3 minutes.

I have plenty of surface agitation to let oxygen in, I think it is the reason personally I feel if it flowed more the cycle would work more efficiently leaving me with 0 ammonia like I say I could change the water now I will still have 0.2 ammonia that’s just the way I’m seeing it I feel like if it was filtered more ammonia would be 0