Balling and ionic disbalance

[MiZuboov]

Hi!
I periodically read about the ionic disbalance that occurs when using the classical Balling method. In view of this, the Balling Lite was created. But it uses all the same components. Why is there an ionic imbalance in classic Balling, but not in light version of it? At the same time, the light version of Balling also uses trace elements, which partially neutralizes the ionic imbalance. In general, I would like to better understand the difference between the classic version of Balling and the light one.
Thanks a lot!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I explain all about ionic imbalance and ways to deal with it here:

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters By Randy Holmes-Farley This article is intended to help aquarists understand some of the important differences between the great variety of two and three part alkalinity and...

www.reef2reef.com

If you have questions beyond what’s there, I’m certainly happy to answer them.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Hi!
I periodically read about the ionic disbalance that occurs when using the classical Balling method. In view of this, the Balling Lite was created. But it uses all the same components. Why is there an ionic imbalance in classic Balling, but not in light version of it? At the same time, the light version of Balling also uses trace elements, which partially neutralizes the ionic imbalance. In general, I would like to better understand the difference between the classic version of Balling and the light one.
Thanks a lot!

Aside from Randy's article -

I think you may have it backwards. Hans-Werner's original formula was designed to counter the imbalance of adding calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate.

Balling light omits the "sodium chloride free salt" used to help offset the imbalance and replaces it with "trace elements" -- but does not do anything to actually offset the rise of sodium chloride over time.

So "Balling light" was not created to fix the issue related to sodium chloride, but rather was likely named for marketing purposes, both use the name "balling" and the idea that it was "easier" -- while adding what are claimed to be more balanced "trace" elements.

Randy, Hans-Werner or anybody else can correct me if I have misspoken.

 

[MiZuboov]

Aside from Randy's article -

I think you may have it backwards. Hans-Werner's original formula was designed to counter the imbalance of adding calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate.

Balling light omits the "sodium chloride free salt" used to help offset the imbalance and replaces it with "trace elements" -- but does not do anything to actually offset the rise of sodium chloride over time.

So "Balling light" was not created to fix the issue related to sodium chloride, but rather was likely named for marketing purposes, both use the name "balling" and the idea that it was "easier" -- while adding what are claimed to be more balanced "trace" elements.

Randy, Hans-Werner or anybody else can correct me if I have misspoken.

Do I understand correctly that the difference between Light and Classic is that in the Light version, the ion imbalance is offset by water changes, while in the classic version by using NaCl - free salt mix?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do I understand correctly that the difference between Light and Classic is that in the Light version, the ion imbalance is offset by water changes, while in the classic version by using NaCl - free salt mix?

I don’t personally know what these terms mean exactly, as I expect there’s some variation in how they are used and implemented, but I will say that the form used by Tropic Marin using Balling Part C is ion balanced, as are some two parts which put those same ions into just two of the parts (such as ESV B-ionic).

A two part that relies in water changes may be wholly adequate, especially if rises are in the low side, but they cannot be fully ion balanced. Some of my diy recipes fit that description.

 

[Luminous74]

I'm not 100% sure, but last year there were some discussions about Balling Light where it was noticed that sulfur levels dropped relative to salinity and other macro elements (based on ICP testing). My conclusion was that Balling Light doesn’t provide a completely balanced ion profile. Why only sulfur? Because other macro elements are compensated through trace elements, and sulfur isn’t included there. But I can’t say for sure since I don’t know the exact composition of Balling Light. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to be corrected. Some reefers were advised by the manufacturer to dose sulfur accordingly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not 100% sure, but last year there were some discussions about Balling Light where it was noticed that sulfur levels dropped relative to salinity and other macro elements (based on ICP testing). My conclusion was that Balling Light doesn’t provide a completely balanced ion profile. Why only sulfur? Because other macro elements are compensated through trace elements, and sulfur isn’t included there. But I can’t say for sure since I don’t know the exact composition of Balling Light. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to be corrected. Some reefers were advised by the manufacturer to dose sulfur accordingly.

Which brand? I’d be wary of assuming Balling lite means the same thing to every company using it. But if it only means calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate/carbonate/hydroxide plus trace elements, then sulfate will fall.

That said, my diy is sulfate/chloride balanced via the part 3, even if other ions such as potassium may not be.

 

[Luminous74]

Balling Light, for me, is the product from Fauna Marin.
I’m not aware of any other product with the same name. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but I just haven’t come across it yet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The FM Balling Light product is somewhat unclear what is in it, and I couldn’t say either it has the proper chloride to sulfate balance or not, but it does not sound like it properly balances ions like potassium, and I think a recipe using TM Balling Part C or Aquaforest mineral salt is a better way to go.

Balling Light Set - Fauna Marin

www.faunamarin.de

 

[Pod_01]

The FM Balling Light product is somewhat unclear what is in it, and I couldn’t say either it has the proper chloride to sulfate balance or not, but it does not sound like it properly balances ions like potassium, and I think a recipe using TM Balling Part C or Aquaforest mineral salt is a better way to go.

Balling Light Set - Fauna Marin

www.faunamarin.de

When I used FM Balling Light I did ended up with sulphur drop:

It took me some time to clue in it was ionic imbalance, but not before I got this to fix the issue:

 

[geologeek]

When I used FM Balling Light I did ended up with sulphur drop:

It took me some time to clue in it was ionic imbalance, but not before I got this to fix the issue:

So their balling product is lacking in something that they sell in a bottle you have to additionally purchase and dose?

Might be worth just using TM balling C?

 

[Koty]

The components in Aquaforest are divided differently among the three parts than those in TM. Also, IME, the Balling method (TM), has a significant Calcium creep-up that is faster as the dosing volumes increase. That requires different volumes from each A, B, and C part. For example, my Ca is over 500 ppm, so I dose A, B, and C 70, 120, and 95 milliliters daily.
Another issue, of course, is salinity creeping up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So their balling product is lacking in something that they sell in a bottle you have to additionally purchase and dose?

Might be worth just using TM balling C?

Clarity of what is present is why I recommend it.

 

[Pod_01]

So their balling product is lacking in something that they sell in a bottle you have to additionally purchase and dose?

Might be worth just using TM balling C?

FM doesn’t have part C, but they refer to it as “Balling” and claim ionic imbalance.
Maybe with lot of water changes, .

I made the switch to TM original Balling method about 5 months ago.

 

[BeanAnimal]

FM doesn’t have part C, but they refer to it as “Balling” and claim ionic imbalance.

Magic Crystals fix everything... no need for part C.

 

[rtparty]

FM doesn’t have part C, but they refer to it as “Balling” and claim ionic imbalance.
Maybe with lot of water changes, .

I made the switch to TM original Balling method about 5 months ago.

So the company that doesn’t understand chemistry also doesn’t understand how to formulate products that require chemistry.

Makes sense really

 

[Luminous74]

Your response made me laugh after all the discussions about bolus dosing – thank you for that. Although, to be honest, it’s not just funny.

 

[Luminous74]

I’ve seen ICP analyses with even lower values, well below 800 mg/L. Honestly, with yours, I don’t think I would have even worried about it.

 

[Luminous74]

So the company that doesn’t understand chemistry also doesn’t understand how to formulate products that require chemistry.

Makes sense really

Your response also makes me smile. But actually, it’s concerning. Initially, there was speculation on the manufacturers' websites about what could be influencing the sulfur levels, and they admitted they had no explanation for it. When people wanted to discuss the topic of ionic imbalance, it was denied, and they claimed the system was balanced.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I suggest picking a product where the composition claim is known.