Bayer Insecticidal Coral Dip

[luke33]

I'd like to hear who wears gloves

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Encountered RTN/STN myself. We've been down this road and I fully believe it's only a matter of time until it's uncovered exactly what damage these do to corals.

I'm sure you could dip with a dilution of gasoline or even crude oil and most corals would survive. At least those wouldn't provoke new resistant-strains of arthropods. (red bugs are arthropods for anyone who isn't aware; of course these guys don't tell you that)

Otherwise someone else contacted the EPA, I suggest you nip this thread in the bud.(unfortunately I can't take the credit, though I question their compound they refer to, I don't think Reef2Reef probably wants to be tied into federal law violations)

I'm curious as to what other coral dips they're referring to.

Either way, it's entirely irresponsible to suggest this as a coral dip. I won't be checking replies, so if you want to flame me, please message me.

Thank you for writing to ask the Environmental Protection Agency about the use of Bayer Complete insect killer as a coral dip.
There is only one Bayer product using the name Complete Insect Killer, however, carbaryl is the active ingredient in that product; it contains no pyrethroids. Regardless, from the limited information provided, it appears you are describing an unapproved use of an EPA-registered pesticide. The EPA cannot comment on off-label uses since we have not assessed the risks from such uses, so we have no data from which to make informed comments. The EPA cannot assume (in the absence of adequate data) that an off-label use is not resulting in unreasonable risk to human health or the environment. Because of those potential risks, off-label uses are generally considered to be violations of federal law and are subject to enforcement action under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act. Disposal of pesticides is generally regulated under different laws than pesticide use itself, however, disposal down the drain of effluent from an off-label use may violate a host of state and federal water quality laws, as well as potentially causing issues for waste water treatment plants that are not set up to effectively deal with relatively high doses of illegally used pesticides in waste water effluent.
I will refer this matter to the EPA's Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance since, in addition to the violations related to off-label uses discussed above, it appears there are several products being sold as coral dips that make pesticidal claims that are not registered with the EPA and do not appear to comply with exemptions from registration requirements under FIFRA.
I hope you find this information useful. Please write us again if you have additional questions.

It's times like this I question the people in the hobby.

 

[watchguy123]

I dispose the majority of it in the yard, in patio drains. I am not using much at a time (10 mls in 4 ounces of water for multiple frags). It is broken down in water and light and also slowly degraded in soil. I rinse the rinse cups in the fish room sink and reuse the the rinse cups for the next Bayer dip.

I generally avoid doing this on the same day as the exterminator visits

 

[redfishbluefish]

@Kungpaoshizi, the purpose of this thread is not to bash the use of Bayer, but to find out what those of use who are using the product, what dose are they using. If you can not add to this discussion regarding dosage, please refrain from your personal beliefs of this product as a coral dip. That's for another post....that has already been closed!

 

[watchguy123]

Kungpaoshizi raises valid points about using a pesticide and his cautions have some merit.

If the dip is 100% effective, then resistant strains are not being developed. It's when the kill rate is less than 100%, that repeated dosages over generations may lead to resistance.

Both the EPA and Food and Drug administration have many mixed signals on appropriate waste disposal. I would advocate best practices whatever those are deemed to be.

As far as harming coral, I suggest that aefw removed from corals is worth the harm

 

[redfishbluefish]

Please keep this thread on track for dosage you are using. The points raised are for another thread.

 

[najer]

Interesting and mostly great thread (he said he wouldn't respond on this thread so no point naming names.)
I found my first bit of reading on a search for carbaryl, link below, sorry ops if I can't post this, please remove.

http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Carbaryl

I work for a pharmaceutical company, not as a chemist but I still love to learn.
Reading the above I would wear gloves but it doesn't sound like it is a massive hazard if the concentrate is handled correctly in a well ventilated area, just my opinion.

If I can find this in England I will give it a try but I will also dig and find safety data sheets, a lot of British people are now using a supermarket disinfectant (including me) as a coral dip.
Great thread.

 

[awax]

going to try bayer dip this week

 

[tom reilly]

I also follow the 1.5 ml per oz. Information from the same site.

I've also used dosages as high as 20 ml per 8 oz without adverse effect.

I am not as religious about the multiple dips after to clear the Bayer off. I simply dip mine in tank water for 15 minutes then in the tank they go.

Also, sorry to be a killjoy, remember to where gloves and glasses and only use in a well ventilated room. Keep away from pets, kids, etc.

But its ok to dip live corals in it? Somehow that just doesn't seem right.

 

[happyhourhero]

I dont really measure mine. I just make the water look milky and dip.

 

[bif24701]

Bayer works 100% for me, never had any adverse affects to corals. All corals fully recover with in hours of dip. 100% effective, zero casualties, cheap, easy, fast! This is the ****!

4oz tank water:10ml Bayer

 

[tom reilly]

I would think a soft tissued creature like most corals would absorb some of the insecticide , and there are all kinds of warnings on the label, while enjoying a Bayer dip. Rinse but I think some of this stuff ends up in your tank.Whats wrong with the products meant for this purpose?

 

[happyhourhero]

I would think a soft tissued creature like most corals would absorb some of the insecticide , and there are all kinds of warnings on the label, while enjoying a Bayer dip. Rinse but I think some of this stuff ends up in your tank.Whats wrong with the products meant for this purpose?

In my experience, Bayer is easier on the corals than the products meant for that purpose.

 

[bif24701]

In my experience, Bayer is easier on the corals than the products meant for that purpose.

100% agree.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Here is the updated summary of responses....and it is absolutely amazing to me, the variability in dose that folks are using. I just don't know where these numbers come from. I will repeat what I said earlier, at 1 ml per 100, I've killed ever "non egg" pest on my frags. I just don't understand the "mega" dosing some folks are using. But it does show that Bayer is very forgiving.

SUMMARY OF RESPONSES (mls of Bayer per 100 mls of tank water)
Redfishbluefish..........1
BryanS4.....................Skim Milk
icecool2......................5
Rsaalman...................2.1
kschweer....................1+
dbl..............................8.3
HM3105 (1)................5
HM3105 (2)...............8.3
hawkinsrgk................8.3
vic67..........................Skim Milk
Waboss.....................Weak Skim Milk
Joker..........................White Water
ihavecrabs.................2.1 - 2.5
mrcoffee2.................8.3
blackgrouper79(1)....31.7
blackgrouper79(2)....23.8
Luvs501s...................8.3
ndz98.......................8.3
sithrico.....................2.5
hybridazn.................16.9
Murfreesboro...........5
chefpaul....................1
icecool2....................5
Keith_0011...............5.1
watchguy123............8.5
bif24701...................8.5

 

[dbl]

8.3 is the mode in that group....go team 8.3...lol.

@redfishbluefish, great point on the forgiving nature of Bayer as that is quite a range.

 

[Robink]

I use 12 ml of Bayer to 1 cup of tank water for 15 minutes. Then rinse twice in two separate containers of clean tank water for 15 minutes each. Also use a turkey baster to blow anything off the corals.

 

[redfishbluefish]

8.3 is the mode in that group....go team 8.3...lol.

You "Tim the Toolman" overdoser!!!!

 

[redfishbluefish]

I use 12 ml of Bayer to 1 cup of tank water for 15 minutes. Then rinse twice in two separate containers of clean tank water for 15 minutes each. Also use a turkey baster to blow anything off the corals.

OK @Robink , next summary I'll get you in at 5.1 mls per 100. Thanks for responding.

 

[MartyF]

Personally I don't get all fancy. Take out some tank water, eyeball some Bayer so it looks like skim milk and leave it in for 10 mins. Raise in tank water and in it goes.

100 plus acros and it hasn't failed me yet.

I do the same thing