Bean animal drain issue

[OCJoeR]

I’ve had my tank set up for a couple years now. It’s just a 55 gallon tank with a bean animal system with a 25 gallon sump. A week or so ago I cleaned the protein skimmer and when I started everything back up the system started draining more and more slowly. I’ve had to reduce the pump speed so as not to cause an overflow. If I put my thumb over the air gap hose the system drains but if I let go it goes back to a very slow drain. Any suggestions on what could be causing this? I’m not sure the photo shows the system enough but it’s the only one I have right now.

Joe

 

[minus9]

Did you try the gate valve on the primary drain? That would be the first thing to change.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

@BeanAnimal

 

[BeanAnimal]

Without knowing more, I would say that the ball valve is full of crud... open it fully and get it cleaned out.

 

[OCJoeR]

Did you try the gate valve on the primary drain? That would be the first thing to change.

Hi Minus,

Yes, that was the first thing I thought of but there is no difference in the flow if I open it all the way.

I’m wondering if there could be air trapped in the main drain. I’m going to try and find time to take the plumbing apart on it and put it back together and see what happens.

Joe

 

[Mels_Reef]

If your secondary drain is working fine, close the main drain valve fully and then open it all the way up. I have a similar thing happen occasionally on my 8yr old beananimal system. Working that valve back and forth a few times usually clears the problem.

 

[minus9]

Hi Minus,

Yes, that was the first thing I thought of but there is no difference in the flow if I open it all the way.

I’m wondering if there could be air trapped in the main drain. I’m going to try and find time to take the plumbing apart on it and put it back together and see what happens.

Joe

I don't think there would be air, but maybe something is in the line? Any access for snails, etc?

 

[OCJoeR]

I don't think there would be air, but maybe something is in the line? Any access for snails, etc?

No snails but I am going to check that line.

 

[OCJoeR]

So I took the pvc off from below the valve. Nothing clogging it up. Opened the valve all the way and put a bottle brush up into it, nothing clogging it. I checked from the overflow box side and nothing was clogging that side up. I did notice that the threads on the pipe going into the bulkhead for the main drain were loose. At this point I can't do much about tightening them up because of the lack of room to turn that section of the drain. Could this cause the slow drain? I don't know. I put everything back together and turned on the pump. At first the same issue, very slow drain (and that with the pump only set at about 25% power). I took the tubing on the secondary drain and held it into the water in the overflow box. As expected it caused the main drain to flow much quicker. When I lifted it out of the water the level in the box went back up. I closed the valve and the water rose higher and began to drain through the secondary drain. I opened the valve and the water lever in the box started going down until it went past the bottom of the elbow in the main drain. I shut the valve half way and the level stayed low but didn't go below the elbow. I increased the pump speed up to 55% and the level stayed where it should be. I fiddled a little more with the valve opening and pump speed and now it seems everything is ok. Don't ask me why it went back to normal 'cuz I have no idea. But I'm glad it did.

plumbing !!!! Grrrrrrrrrr!! LOL

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I don't see any unions, how are you taking the PVC apart?

 

[OCJoeR]

Below the valve it is just pushed together.

 

[OCJoeR]

I didn't do anything in particular and it seemed to resolve itself. The overflow box went down to the normal level after the feeding delay on the sump pump went back on. I'm not sure why it went back to normal but it did. Then a few weeks later it started doing the same thing.

I've noticed that when the system was working correctly when the pump shut off for the feeding cycle the overflow box drained to the point where the water level went below the main drain and I could hear air being sucked up. Now, with it not working correctly, the water level does not go that far down when the pump shuts off for feeding. Any ideas why this would happen. It's almost like the water is not fully draining from the main drain line.

 

[minus9]

I didn't do anything in particular and it seemed to resolve itself. The overflow box went down to the normal level after the feeding delay on the sump pump went back on. I'm not sure why it went back to normal but it did. Then a few weeks later it started doing the same thing.

I've noticed that when the system was working correctly when the pump shut off for the feeding cycle the overflow box drained to the point where the water level went below the main drain and I could hear air being sucked up. Now, with it not working correctly, the water level does not go that far down when the pump shuts off for feeding. Any ideas why this would happen. It's almost like the water is not fully draining from the main drain line.

Is your return DC or AC? If DC and controllable, why not reduce the speed during feeding or not turn it off altogether? Another tip if you’re using an auto feeder is to mount the auto feeder in your return section of the sump, this allows the food to be drawn up by the pump and goes into the display. I’ve done this for years without issue and I never reduce or turn off my return during feedings, just shut off the wave makers. I’m also not a fan of turning off return pumps frequently, sometimes they don’t turn back on.

 

[OCJoeR]

Hey there minus,

I suppose I could do what you're saying, my pump does have the ability to be dialed down. However, I'm trying to determine what the problem is with the system. If it drains properly then there is no issue with the pump being shut off during feeding. In fact the pump is specifically designed to do that. When you press the one button it actually says "feed" on the display and the pump shuts down for about 10 minutes. It starts right back up and goes back to the speed it was set at before shutting off. I've had it set up for a couple years and its always worked correctly. The problem seems to be with the drain lines.

For some reason, unknown to me right now, when the pump shuts off the overflow box sometimes drains all the way and then when the pump starts up again the system works correctly, with the water level in the box right where it should be. Other times, like for the last few days, when the pump shuts off the box level does not go all the way down to the level is should and then when the pump starts up the water level in the box goes up to a level where it hits the air line on the secondary drain and then the primary drain begins to run properly but then stops again.

As I said, I'm not sure why this happens intermittently. I'm thinking it has something to do with air getting into the line sometimes but I just can't figure it out.

 

[OCJoeR]

This is where the overflow box drains to when the problem starts. (please excuse the algae, we've been doing a whole lot of babysitting over the holidays and I just haven't had time to clean it). The water stops draining when the level is just at the bottom of the bulkhead tube. Other times the box drains down to the bottom of the white elbow fitting on the main drain and you can hear the sound of the air trying to be sucked into the drain.

 

[minus9]

Do you have a gate valve or a ball valve on the primary drain?

 

[DanP-SD]

I’ve had similar issues if the water level in the sump is significantly higher than the bottom of the full siphon drain pipe. Ideally, you only need the water level in the sump to be a half inch or so above the bottom of the pipe outlet. Of course, when you’re just starting up the return pump, it’ll be higher than that but if it’s too high, it makes it hard for the air to escape the full siphon drain pipe and start a siphon.

Did you recently change the water level in your sump? You might try lowering it a bit and seeing if that fixes the problem — or cutting the pipe so it terminates only slightly below the water level in your crash box when everything is running.

 

[minus9]

I don’t think the water level in sump or how much it covers the pipe matters that much, but not having a gate valve does. You’ll never have it dialed in with a ball valve, it simply doesn’t allow you to adjust the volume fine enough to keep the siphon steady. You may have gotten lucky for a while initially, but it only takes a slight alteration in flow to throw it out of whack.
I have the synergy ghost overflow that so many have complained about (external box sits lower than the inside box) but if you set up the stand pipes inside the external box properly, it runs dead silent, but you need a gate valve and you also need to play with the primary and secondary stand pipe’s height in relation to each other until you find the right ratio. Your box (inside) may be the issue? The original bean animal style overflow has 3 ball valves, one for each stand pipe, which gives you greater flexibility with adjusting flow, but the modern design incorporates a gate valve.

 

[OCJoeR]

Hi Minus,

It's a ball valve.

 

[OCJoeR]

Hi Dan,

I'll check that later this morning when people are awake in my house. I'm not sure how that level would change since it would be controlled by the height of the partition in the first section of the sump. Since I haven't changed the height of that partition I don't see how the water level could be different. But, hey, at this point I'll try anything. I was thinking it has something to do with air in the line or not in the line (main drain).

Joe