Beginners Guide to Acclimation and Quarantine

[Brew12]

so this seems like the place to ask about QT. I've never done one so..

I have a DD ORA orchid dottyback and liveaquaria red lined wrasse en route friday.

I have a 10 gallon tank w/ some way oversized HOB filter. I read to take any rock out so I'll just do a little tupperware of sand for the wrasse and some PVC pipes for the dotty. I haven't really cycled it other than I have some extra live rock from my DT sitting in there currently, but I have a ton of marinepure balls from my sump I could put it the HOB or just put them in the tank if they don't fit in there. Also probably going to order some biospira just to be safe.

medication wise.. I found that wrasses aren't big fans of copper, correct? so I'm thinking I'll stick to safer stuff for my first trip through here.

and also, how often should I do a 2-3 gallon water change? should it be brand new saltwater or just DT water?

You are more than welcome to ask questions here, but if you want a much more detailed reference you can look here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

Most wrasses do ok with chelated copper products. It is the CP they don't do well in.

I rarely do water changes in my QT system. I only do them if reacting to a problem. I tend to set up my QT with old DT water, but any new water additions will always be freshly mixed saltwater.

 

[Bthomas]

Opinions on putting a Kole and a yellow tang in a 20 gallon quarantine together? Too small a tank for the 2 or would they be ok?

 

[pshootr]

In my opinion the Tang is going to be just as stressed in a small aquarium with another tang as it would be in any other environment.
I would say quarantine them separately.

 

[Double Z]

This is a Trigger Systems sump I am not currently using, so I am hoping to turn it into a QT. I have the water circulating from the pump chamber back through the filter pad. Does this seem like a viable option? I know I need heat and hiding places. I plan to QT fish in here not corral. Any advise?

 

[Brew12]

This is a Trigger Systems sump I am not currently using, so I am hoping to turn it into a QT. I have the water circulating from the pump chamber back through the filter pad. Does this seem like a viable option? I know I need heat and hiding places. I plan to QT fish in here not corral. Any advise?

I think that should work just fine. Very interesting use for it, I like it!

 

[pshootr]

This is a Trigger Systems sump I am not currently using, so I am hoping to turn it into a QT. I have the water circulating from the pump chamber back through the filter pad. Does this seem like a viable option? I know I need heat and hiding places. I plan to QT fish in here not corral. Any advise?

Yes sir, that should work fine for appropriate sized fish. Keep in mind if you do decide to use it as a sump, you should wash it very thoroughly and then run water through it for a few days and test for copper. If it does Leach copper then you would need to use a product such as Cuprisorb to remove it.

 

[Double Z]

Thank you very much for the advice. I only have a Red Sea Reefer 250, so the QT fish will be small. The copper suggestions are great thanks!

 

[APrince62]

I havnt even started my salt water tank yet but Im looking to get a QT tank set up so I can have it ready for fish when I set up my tank. First question ...since I won't have salt tank ready yet where do I get water for QT? Second question....I plan on using HOB marineland power filter with bio wheel I currently have on my freshwater tank for QT....I use carbon filters now.....what will I want to use for QT?

 

[Geebs19]

You will just start with fresh salt water and then you can use a bottled bacteria to get started like biospira. You can use the hob with the carbon but won’t want to run carbon if your are dosing meds. I would recommend getting a seachem ammonia alert badge for when the fish go in so that you can monitor the ammonia level and do a water change if needed.

 

[NoobReeefer]

ive noticed a few people doing 14 days of therapeutic copper then transferring to a clean sterile tank. this seems kind of like a copper/ttm hybrid approach. my question is would say 16-17 days in therapeutic copper then transfer to clean sterile tank still work kind of like extra insurance?

 

[Brew12]

ive noticed a few people doing 14 days of therapeutic copper then transferring to a clean sterile tank. this seems kind of like a copper/ttm hybrid approach. my question is would say 16-17 days in therapeutic copper then transfer to clean sterile tank still work kind of like extra insurance?

That would work, but that is a lot of extra insurance. This method works because of the known lifecycle of Cryptocaryon Irritans (Marine Ich). Copper kills the Theront, or free swimming, stage. While feeding on a fish they are called Trophonts. The trophonts only stay on the fish for a maximum of 7 days. Treating the fish in copper for 10 days gives you a 3 day window for safety. To me, this is more than enough. 14 days tends to be very convenient because it may match up with a persons work schedule but no real reason to go longer.

 

[Snyder1456]

That would work, but that is a lot of extra insurance. This method works because of the known lifecycle of Cryptocaryon Irritans (Marine Ich). Copper kills the Theront, or free swimming, stage. While feeding on a fish they are called Trophonts. The trophonts only stay on the fish for a maximum of 7 days. Treating the fish in copper for 10 days gives you a 3 day window for safety. To me, this is more than enough. 14 days tends to be very convenient because it may match up with a persons work schedule but no real reason to go longer.

I think I've asked this before but I don't remember if anyone had answered...
If I keep my fish at therapeutic levels of copper for 30 days instead of 14, wouldn't they have to be transferred anyway? I was under the impression that copper prevents the crypto cysts from bursting/hatching, so I was wondering how opting for the longer treatment and then just running carbon etc to remove copper would be ok. Does the 30 days kill the cysts? I feel like with all the reading I've done I should know this by now! Lol

 

[NoobReeefer]

I think I've asked this before but I don't remember if anyone had answered...
If I keep my fish at therapeutic levels of copper for 30 days instead of 14, wouldn't they have to be transferred anyway? I was under the impression that copper prevents the crypto cysts from bursting/hatching, so I was wondering how opting for the longer treatment and then just running carbon etc to remove copper would be ok. Does the 30 days kill the cysts? I feel like with all the reading I've done I should know this by now! Lol

it is kind of confusing but how i understand it is the copper only kills the free swimmers. they only stay on the fish for 3-7 days then when they drop off the fish they turn into cysts, the cysts last from 3-28 days before they pop and become free swimmers again, so you either need to keep the fish at therapeutic levels for 30 days to kill the free swimmers from the cysts that pop in 28 days, if you do 14 days then transfer them out basically all the cysts that already dropped off and popped (free swimmers now) were killed by the copper and your leaving all the cysts that haven't popped in the old tank.
soooo say you get a fish that just got a new free swimmer stuck to him an hour ago, that's gonna fall off in 3-7 days and turn into a cyst, that cyst will then pop in 3-28 days and become a free swimmer again and killed by copper. so in theory you only need the fish in copper for 7 days if your going to transfer it into a sterile tank but people do 14 days so the fish is in copper for 2 ich life cycles as insurance. I think i got that right but don't quote me lol

 

[Brew12]

I think I've asked this before but I don't remember if anyone had answered...
If I keep my fish at therapeutic levels of copper for 30 days instead of 14, wouldn't they have to be transferred anyway? I was under the impression that copper prevents the crypto cysts from bursting/hatching, so I was wondering how opting for the longer treatment and then just running carbon etc to remove copper would be ok. Does the 30 days kill the cysts? I feel like with all the reading I've done I should know this by now! Lol

Copper doesn't prevent them from hatching. It does damage them over a long period of time. Copper kills the free swimmers to protect the fish very quickly. Long term exposure to the encysted crypto damages it enough so that even though it may attach and feed on the fish it will no longer be viable to reproduce. There is very little literature on this and I'm sorry to say I lost the paper that discussed it. But, this is why the 30 day treatment followed by removing the copper works.

 

[Brew12]

it is kind of confusing but how i understand it is the copper only kills the free swimmers. they only stay on the fish for 3-7 days then when they drop off the fish they turn into cysts, the cysts last from 3-28 days before they pop and become free swimmers again, so you either need to keep the fish at therapeutic levels for 30 days to kill the free swimmers from the cysts that pop in 28 days, if you do 14 days then transfer them out basically all the cysts that already dropped off and popped (free swimmers now) were killed by the copper and your leaving all the cysts that haven't popped in the old tank.
soooo say you get a fish that just got a new free swimmer stuck to him an hour ago, that's gonna fall off in 3-7 days and turn into a cyst, that cyst will then pop in 3-28 days and become a free swimmer again and killed by copper. so in theory you only need the fish in copper for 7 days if your going to transfer it into a sterile tank but people do 14 days so the fish is in copper for 2 ich life cycles as insurance. I think i got that right but don't quote me lol

Yup, you pretty much nailed it except for one point. Additional studies have found that Cryptocaryon may actually stay as a cyst for up to 72 days. This is the basis for the 76 day fallow recommendation to clear it from a tank. We don't know how common this longer encysting strain is to know how likely it is to encounter.

 

[NoobReeefer]

Yup, you pretty much nailed it except for one point. Additional studies have found that Cryptocaryon may actually stay as a cyst for up to 72 days. This is the basis for the 76 day fallow recommendation to clear it from a tank. We don't know how common this longer encysting strain is to know how likely it is to encounter.

oh yea your right, i knew i was forgetting something

 

[Snyder1456]

Yup, you pretty much nailed it except for one point. Additional studies have found that Cryptocaryon may actually stay as a cyst for up to 72 days. This is the basis for the 76 day fallow recommendation to clear it from a tank. We don't know how common this longer encysting strain is to know how likely it is to encounter.

So that's what worries me. If there's a strain that can stay as a cyst for longer than 30 days, wouldn't removing the copper and not the fish be just as dangerous as removing the copper after only 14 days? Thanks for the response guys.

 

[Brew12]

So that's what worries me. If there's a strain that can stay as a cyst for longer than 30 days, wouldn't removing the copper and not the fish be just as dangerous as removing the copper after only 14 days? Thanks for the response guys.

It isn't, for the reasons I laid out in the post above this one. I'm guessing you missed it.

Copper doesn't prevent them from hatching. It does damage them over a long period of time. Copper kills the free swimmers to protect the fish very quickly. Long term exposure to the encysted crypto damages it enough so that even though it may attach and feed on the fish it will no longer be viable to reproduce. There is very little literature on this and I'm sorry to say I lost the paper that discussed it. But, this is why the 30 day treatment followed by removing the copper works.

 

[NoobReeefer]

So that's what worries me. If there's a strain that can stay as a cyst for longer than 30 days, wouldn't removing the copper and not the fish be just as dangerous as removing the copper after only 14 days? Thanks for the response guys.

you don't remove the copper and leave the fish in the same tank after 14 days of copper, if you do copper for 14 days you HAVE to remove the fish and put it in a new sterile tank. if you do copper for 30 days then you can remove the copper and keep the fish in the same tank, technically there could still be some cysts in that tank that havent popped yet but with the cysts being exposed to copper for that long they have been damaged enough to where they can't reproduce, they may pop and the free swimmers will attach to the fish again but after they drop off the fish the life cycle is over.
im guessing that meds like cupramine feel like 14 days is enough because the cysts are exposed to copper long enough that's why the directions say 14 days BUT hobbiests don't feel like 14 days is enough, that's why we either treat for 30 days then remove copper or treat for 14 days and transfer fish to a new sterile tank.
again i don't know this as fact i just put 2 and 2 together with all the info ive read and that's what ive come up with.

 

[Snyder1456]

you don't remove the copper and leave the fish in the same tank after 14 days of copper, if you do copper for 14 days you HAVE to remove the fish and put it in a new sterile tank. if you do copper for 30 days then you can remove the copper and keep the fish in the same tank, technically there could still be some cysts in that tank that havent popped yet but with the cysts being exposed to copper for that long they have been damaged enough to where they can't reproduce, they may pop and the free swimmers will attach to the fish again but after they drop off the fish the life cycle is over.
im guessing that meds like cupramine feel like 14 days is enough because the cysts are exposed to copper long enough that's why the directions say 14 days BUT hobbiests don't feel like 14 days is enough, that's why we either treat for 30 days then remove copper or treat for 14 days and transfer fish to a new sterile tank.
again i don't know this as fact i just put 2 and 2 together with all the info ive read and that's what ive come up with.

Sorry I didn't see the part about them not being able to reproduce. This is the first time I've heard that and I always wondered what the difference was between 14 days and transfer fish or 30 days and remove copper. I've been doing 30 days and removing copper but I have OCD and am constantly staring at my fish waiting for a spot to appear! Lol Thanks for the clarification. Where did you get this information?