Best alternative to quarantine?

[areefer01]

I have a thriving moorish idol living with 5 very aggressive tangs and an ultra aggressive queen angel. All been together quite awhile. With all kinds of coral and a maxima clam. Many things in the above statement are said to be impossible by some very well known people in this hobby.

Not sure how this is related to what I said unless you believe they are credentials.

And it works because I have decades of experience on how everything was set up. All with basically no water changes and perfect water chemistry according to icp.

And yet those decades of experience you are here asking for help with pH.

Hard to keep acropora all thriving. And that picture I posted is over a year old as there are many more corals that are much larger. So don’t worry about my ph testers being unreliable, it’s irrelevant. I have more than enough real world experience failures and success with what I’m talking about to comment on why Paul has things wrong. And I believe what he says has a large impact on beginners failing and more importantly killing live animals that were stolen from their homes to die in somebody’s living room after less than a week. It is not V for Vendetta.

You are focusing on the word "wrong" yet have nothing to back it up that isn't anecdotal. Maybe what you mean to say is that you "disagree" with him. State that. He can't be wrong because he has a display that he likes that works for him. You can scream all you want like Girtie meeting ET for the first time but it isn't going to change anything. Also you missed the fact he clearly states his design shouldn't be for new hobbyist. Oh - and let us not get into a QT debate because a lot of hobbyist kill fish by doing it wrong. I'm of the opinion don't do it if you suck at it so buy from a vetted vendor or observe and isolate but again another debate.

Glad you have all those nice animals in your care but still believe the hostility towards a fellow hobbyist is uncalled for.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

All 9 of my tangs had ich real bad on Saturday when i added a 40 watt UV and started running it at 15.5 gpm on my return. So every bit of water that goes down the overflow is “treated” per say. Today most of the fish were considerably better. Some just had a spot or two. Others were still fairly infected but much better than they were Saturday. It’s a 270 gallon system.
I also run a closed loop at 6k gallons per hour to keep the water moving around the display tank.
People can say what they want about UV‘s but they work well if sized properly and the correct flow is ran through them. My glass hardly has any algae growth either. Anyway just thought I’d share my experience. I will update my progress in a few weeks to share how it’s coming along.

good info, keep us posted on the results.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Not sure how this is related to what I said unless you believe they are credentials.



And yet those decades of experience you are here asking for help with pH.



You are focusing on the word "wrong" yet have nothing to back it up that isn't anecdotal. Maybe what you mean to say is that you "disagree" with him. State that. He can't be wrong because he has a display that he likes that works for him. You can scream all you want like Girtie meeting ET for the first time but it isn't going to change anything. Also you missed the fact he clearly states his design shouldn't be for new hobbyist. Oh - and let us not get into a QT debate because a lot of hobbyist kill fish by doing it wrong. I'm of the opinion don't do it if you suck at it so buy from a vetted vendor or observe and isolate but again another debate.

Glad you have all those nice animals in your care but still believe the hostility towards a fellow hobbyist is uncalled for.

You call me out for hostility yet continue to throw hostility at me with this bizare ph jab. Do you not understand that my problem with ph is that the hobby grade ph testers I have do not agree with each other? Please explain to me how this somehow defies my experience? I have to say, I’m very confused.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Not sure how this is related to what I said unless you believe they are credentials.

In the previous posts before this one, you and Paul both made nasty comments on how I do not know what I’m talking about.

Paul “ I am sorry you can't keep a simple organism like ich from killing your fish. ” and you “You need to dial down the rhetoric. A lot. You say he is wrong, in left field, says scientifically inaccurate via posts, or just plain wrong yet you can't figure out your pH problem.”

So I showed an example of a system that is comprised of complex interactions deemed impossible by many and that takes great amount of knowledge to execute. And if you know what you are talking about, there are many examples in that system that only an expert aquarist could make work.

So not sure why you’re upset with this? Also you are very upset that you think I am hostile, yet you keep saying very hostile rude things to me.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

In the previous posts before this one, you and Paul both made nasty comments on how I do not know what I’m talking about.

Paul “ I am sorry you can't keep a simple organism like ich from killing your fish. ” and you “You need to dial down the rhetoric. A lot. You say he is wrong, in left field, says scientifically inaccurate via posts, or just plain wrong yet you can't figure out your pH problem.”

So I showed an example of a system that is comprised of complex interactions deemed impossible by many and that takes great amount of knowledge to execute. And if you know what you are talking about, there are many examples in that system that only an expert aquarist could make work.

So not sure why you’re upset with this? Also you are very upset that you think I am hostile, yet you keep saying very hostile rude things to me.

Dude! Just stop already!

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Dude! Just stop already!

You clearly don’t like me, that is fine. I’m okay with it. Believe me, I’m sick of hearing from the morality police “you”. Although you are very one sided on that, lots of rude comments on here. I made 1 that was ment to be rude, and you can’t let it go. And I shouldn’t have made that comment. You think I’m mean, aggressive, whatever. Not really my intent, so let it go.

Lets get into content. What have I said that is actually wrong? The content is what matters. And how many people have said things that were totally wrong? Multiple

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You clearly don’t like me, that is fine. I’m okay with it. Believe me, I’m sick of hearing from the morality police “you”. Although you are very one sided on that, lots of rude comments on here. I made 1 that was ment to be rude, and you can’t let it go. And I shouldn’t have made that comment. You think I’m mean, aggressive, whatever. Not really my intent, so let it go.

Lets get into content. What have I said that is actually wrong? The content is what matters. And how many people have said things that were totally wrong? Multiple

I don't have any like or dislike but you've hopelessly derailed this thread and it's become a p1ssing contest. For the sake of the rest of us, just stop.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I don't have any like or dislike

That is a bold faced lie, keep telling it to youself.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I don't have any like or dislike but you've hopelessly derailed this thread and it's become a p1ssing contest. For the sake of the rest of us, just stop.

Sorry I have a bad habit of correcting people who make inaccurate and just plain wrong comments about me and to me. And if you read the content of what I’ve said, I’ve done this consistently. I’ve never been right so many times in my life, there have been that many false statements.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Doesn’t take long to find the below nasty quotes that were all wrong. I’m so sorry I corrected them and “derailed” the thread. Guess I should have said nothing.

“ 76 days is the life cycle of ick in a fishless system. Not the requirement for quarantining a fish. Keep it straight”

Proven by the website to be wrong

“ I am sorry you can't keep a simple organism like ich from killing your fish. I noticed you were asking Randy how to eliminate ich on your fish after quarantine. How did that work out?

Totally wrong , fish had mucus plugs not ich.

“yet you can't figure out your pH problem.”

The entire post was about ph testers inaccuracy.

“And yet those decades of experience you are here asking for help with pH.”

Again, my issue was inaccurate ph testers.

 

[Paul B]

Here is the fish you spoke of. Also I remember you saying many time if I’m not mistaken that moorish idols can’t be kept alive long term in the home aquarium. Mine is doing just fine going on 2 years with not trouble, has eaten every day of his life.

I actually never said moorish Idols can't be kept in a home aquaria. I kept two of them for 5 years. What I said was that no one with a "home" aquarium kept one for their assumed full lifespan which should be about 10 years. 2 years or 5 years with that fish is a failure.
I spent a lot of time with them underwater to study them.

Being old and having written a book does not mean you are smart and have good advice.

This is true. I wrote a book because I was asked to write it being I have been at this for quite some time. But yes, it doesn't make me correct. The fact that my fish never get a communicable disease gives me some credence, but still doesn't make me right. Of course no one has to read my book and I always tell Noobs not to read it as a new tank has a different set of problems.

you and Paul both made nasty , on how I do not know what I’m talking about.

I think you called me old, stupid, unscientific and my facts are all wrong. I am un scientific but I don't know any scientists with an old, healthy tank either.

But this is fun and I find it interesting.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Knock it off guys........Lets play nice shall we!

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I never called you stupid. I said you can be still be stupid and write a book. But was not inferring you were stupid. Just pointing out that writing a book doesn’t mean you automatically know what you are talking about.
And you are not the one telling noobs to follow your advice. It is the people who quote you that always comment on the threads where noobs bring home fish with ich. Your advice doesn’t belong in those threads. Yet it is constantly brought up.

I actually never said moorish Idols can't be kept in a home aquaria. I kept two of them for 5 years. What I said was that no one with a "home" aquarium kept one for their assumed full lifespan which should be about 10 years. 2 years or 5 years with that fish is a failure.
I spent a lot of time with them underwater to study them.

This is true. I wrote a book because I was asked to write it being I have been at this for quite some time. But yes, it doesn't make me correct. The fact that my fish never get a communicable disease gives me some credence, but still doesn't make me right. Of course no one has to read my book and I always tell Noobs not to read it as a new tank has a different set of problems.

I think you called me old, stupid, unscientific and my facts are all wrong. I am un scientific but I don't know any scientists with an old, healthy tank either.

But this is fun and I find it interesting.

 

[Paul B]

Have a nice day.

 

[areefer01]

In the previous posts before this one, you and Paul both made nasty comments on how I do not know what I’m talking about.

No nasty comments here although I did point out you are chasing a pH problem. Don't throw stones in a glass house comes to mind. I simply asked you to dial down the rhetoric. It is ok to disagree - call it that.

So I showed an example of a system that is comprised of complex interactions deemed impossible by many and that takes great amount of knowledge to execute. And if you know what you are talking about, there are many examples in that system that only an expert aquarist could make work.

I don't know what you showed. If you kept something alive for 2 years great. Hopefully it will be another two. Or four, or 10. This is an area Paul and I disagree on. Success in keeping fish or corals alive is a journey and everyday the fish are healthy and thriving and doing fish things like growing and maintaining color or spawning then it is success. Even if it is only two years. The goal though is for them to pass naturally by age. We don't know what that is.

So again - if you are keeping X fish alive great. Not related to what you or I are discussing.

So not sure why you’re upset with this? Also you are very upset that you think I am hostile, yet you keep saying very hostile rude things to me.

If you find me calling you out about pH very well. On the other hand I've been pretty consistent in saying you need to dial it down and that it is perfectly fine to disagree with his methods. I disagree with some but who am I to say he is wrong? Nothing nasty here just calling it as I see it.

Hope your day is going well.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

No nasty comments here although I did point out you are chasing a pH problem. Don't throw stones in a glass house comes to mind. I simply asked you to dial down the rhetoric. It is ok to disagree - call it that.



I don't know what you showed. If you kept something alive for 2 years great. Hopefully it will be another two. Or four, or 10. This is an area Paul and I disagree on. Success in keeping fish or corals alive is a journey and everyday the fish are healthy and thriving and doing fish things like growing and maintaining color or spawning then it is success. Even if it is only two years. The goal though is for them to pass naturally by age. We don't know what that is.

So again - if you are keeping X fish alive great. Not related to what you or I are discussing.



If you find me calling you out about pH very well. On the other hand I've been pretty consistent in saying you need to dial it down and that it is perfectly fine to disagree with his methods. I disagree with some but who am I to say he is wrong? Nothing nasty here just calling it as I see it.

Hope your day is going well.

Again, “calling me out” for hobby grade ph testers being garbage makes absolutely no sense. But you just keep posting on it. And you can say you are not being nasty, but that is just not true both points are very confusing.

 

[Dave1993]

my experience is everything eventually dies when ich is introduced. And I have a lot of experience unfortunately. I also have a lot of experience successfully keeping expert fish and large complex aquariums. I am not just talking out of my ***.
So the fact that the above scenario is common, especially for new people getting advice on here, it should not be down played by the anti qt people. That reality needs to be acknowledged.
But even if you can keep it at bay. You have something in your tank that will kill your fish as soon as one of them gets sick or has their immune system compromised for any number of reasons. As soon as that happens there will be tens of thousands of parasites swimming in a tiny glass bowl of water. Why not just buy qt fish from drreef? They really aren’t that much more money. And the chances of you having to deal with parasites are drastically reduced.

LOL this is wrong i have ich in my tank i have 2 tangs they got it once when 1st introduced into the system by my goldflake angel this is like 7/12 months ago only the tangs got ich none of my other fish got it the 2 tangs are a purple and powder blue never had it since i never treated it

 

[atoll]

The concentration of ich in an aquarium is millions of times greater than in the ocean. That statement makes no sense.

Not to you but to some if us it actually does.

 

[atoll]

Well I’ve put many fish with ich in my aquariums over decades and every single time it happened all the fish ended up dying if I didn’t treat them all and go fallow. Not quarantining them is my biggest fail in many years of reefing. And it doesn't feel good being responsible for all their deaths. I recommend the op doesn’t make the same mistake.

Then you didn't do it right. Nobody is suggesting you can just throw fish with itch into any tank, there is much more to it than that.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Not to you but to some if us it actually does.

Okay, enlighten me?