BIG AND LOUD CONTROLLER COMPARISON THREAD

[hybridazn]

My concern is this devolving from and end user comparison thread and into a sponsored advertisement.

The op welcomes comments from anyone on this topic. If apex, vertex, ghl want to chime in they are more than welcome to post on what they have to offer. We as the users offer our take on their offerings, we can feed off each other in this discussion.

 

[reefwiser]

GHL has Marco and Vinny but GHL is not one to post a lot of defense info it just isn't the German way. They would rather help customers than get in *** for tat forum posts.

 

[d2mini]

Agreed. Keep shipping those brand new game changing P4's.
In the words of Sweet Brown... Ain't nobody got time fo dat! :D

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Ok, as the OP, I want to clear up the question of vendor input. I appreciate the input by vendors in this industry into this discussion. IMO they bring valuable knowledge and expertise about their products and the industry in general. I absolutely appreciate @Terence's posts and feel he has contributed greatly to this discussion. I wish that reps from GHL, Vertex, DA, Puratek, Reef Angel, and anyone else in the industry would also come in to offer clarification on their own products as well as perspective in comparison. Maybe it isn't "the German way" or maybe they're too busy packing boxes to join us here, but in any case, WE are the ones who lose out by not benefiting from their knowledge.

Now, I know everyone in this discussion may not agree with me on this point, but I'm going to respectfully ask that moving forward, we keep this point of conversation out of the thread. Discussing who should and should not comment is actually off-topic and derails the thread. Let's keep future comments on subject and avoid throwing shade on others for commenting or not commenting. Thanks.

 

[rygh]

... Some feedback on the relays, the new Energy Bar 832 (and the Energy Bar 4 for that matter) all have relays for every outlet. ...

That is good news.
You should change your documentation and marketing on the Energy Bar 4!
It goes on about soft start on the solid state outputs.
And with 3 outputs rated at 8A, and 1 rated at 12A, my assumption was 3 solid state and 1 mechanical relay.

 

[Jerel]

Not orange... But this is more like it.

:D Just having fun now...

 

[n2585722]

I am looking for the best as I worked with computers for over 15 years and do not want to have to tweak anything to work(tired of it)...

Reporting should be as easy as full reports in simple diagnostics sent to an email(like OnStar on a schedule chosen by the user) or reports put in a more pertinent alert text. Neither of which are that difficult in programming.

EMAIL: [email protected]
PHONE for TEXT Alerts:111-555-2222
Frequency and/or importance level...
BOOM done.

Check boxes on each item you would like an alert on and what is monitored.

More outlets should be very inexpensive as I want all of my electronics minimally on/off controlled.

I like some features of each that I looked at, but I am dumb and would like things to be simplified.

I am not buying a controller that I have to program.
That should have already been done by the programmers. Updates in the software for each piece of hardware(that works with the system, should be just about all hardware including the less expensive selections, like Jecod)should be released upon its release and the consumer should get it for free.

If anyone knows the closest controller please let me know.

Separate question.
Any of them run LINUX?

Leaning towards the GHL, but any are options.

The Archon is a Linux system.

 

[Slm222]

I use a Reefangel since the startup cost was lower with all it came with. Plus I wanted to learn some basic coding. It has worked great and I have added on attachments and items as I need or want. They have all worked great and adding them into the code has been very easy with the wizard or the support forum. The biggest complaint I have is not having a support number to call when in a dire loss and no reply on the forums or emergency mode. Other than that it has been solid.

 

[o2manyfish]

I've been playing with controllers for decades, and built my own using home alarm systems 20+ years ago. For the past 5 years I've been an extreme Apex User and gotten lots of people up and running with Apex. If you take the time you can get the Apex to do just about anything you want. The problem is .when you have it do everything, you end up risking everything.

Since Terrence was good enough to show off a bunch of fancy Orange cars to justify their company color scheme, I will use an auto as an example. 1000's of Ford Mustangs drive off the lot every day. Now let's be honest, they all aren't bright orange. But the fact is behind every Ford Dealership is a Ford Service center. But for most people they get in their cars, they put in their gas and they drive happily around. And the Apex is pretty good at letting the average Joe pop open a box and start controlling and monitoring their aquarium.

But then you have the people that soup up the stereo, slam the suspension, put on the bigger tires, and throw on the turbos. If you are one of those people that has built a custom car, or owned a custom car, or has a friend that owns a custom car. You know that every time you drive it, there is something that you need to go home and work on. And if you are like me and have owned boats you know this example well.

When you start having the Apex do everything it is capable of doing the reliability factor (in my extensive experience) becomes an issue. The people that have 'fully loaded' Apex units overlook this because they love their tinkering and all their custom features. And at that point have spent so much time rebooting it and reflashing it that it less than 100% functional and/or reliable becomes the 'norm'.

And while the cloud 'functionability' and 'accessibility' is really cool - When the cloud service does an update and unbeknownst to you your heater outlet instead of being switched on/off based on your aquarium temp.... turns into an oscillating pump outlet - Guess how you discover this?

Or perhaps you set your Alkalinity to dose 15ml, and the cloud tells you it's 15ml and then you discover its actually putting in 750ml.

With any controller regardless of manufacturer, or 70's color scheme - be wary of what you let them control. All of them are just another component (built by the cheapest bidding circuit manufacturer) we add to our aquarium - and components fail ( and around salt water - much more often). I don't let controllers turn main pumps on. I will use a relay or contactor to shut the pump off. But in the event my controller 'hiccups' my water keeps circulating.

And someone is going to say -- Well my power bars are smart and I can set them to revert to an on or off state. Well that's a great feature when things are working normally. But when the skimmer mate hits the fan --- there is never a guarantee that this will work.

If you have a controller now, run this scenario.... Santa Claus comes down your chimney while you're sleeping. Santa sees your sexy Aquarium controller. Santa says I want that for Missus Clauses 120g SPS tank and grabs your controller, runs up the chimney, yells at Rudolph and away your controller goes. The following morning when you stroll downstairs, whats the status of your tank without it's all mighty controller?

Make sure that when Santa steals your controller, that your aquarium will be able to survive without it. You don't have to buy duplicates of every piece of equipment. But you should make sure that the basics - Flow and Temp - are configured to maintain your livestock - if Santa should nab your controller.

And the other thing I recommend to everyone that has a controller is, where is your spare? The brains of the controllers is pretty inexpensive compared to the entire 'controller' system. And I guarantee if you have a full controller on your aquarium, the cost of a spare brain is way less than the value of the corals on just the first 5" on the left side of your tank. Amazing customer support and tech support (no matter where it is in the world) can't fix what is broke on your tank.

All those cool outlets telling you the watts your consuming, those probes telling you your stats, those laborious lighting schedules you wrote to simulate the dusk /dawn lighting on that little island where you first met your supermodel 'second' wife in the South Pacific -- All that is useless. Think about all those things your controller is monitoring and controlling on your tank at this very minute. It's Friday night. On Saturday morning when you wake up and discover Santa jacked your controller. What's your tank going to do till Marine Depot can drop a new controller at your door step on Tues or Weds? Buy a spare brain!!!! These are little computers running our tanks - have backups just like you have for your computer. Keep your programming backed up (on the cloud perhaps) and keep your brain updated if you make major changes to your configuration.

5 years ago my friend who lives 20 minutes away and I split the cost of a spare Apex brain. 5 years later he has 2 of his own spare brains, and I have 2 back ups as well. Go ahead, click over and find out how much a spare Apex brain costs, then look at your tank and tell me how many corals you have in your tank that are worth LESS than the cost of that spare brain. It's a cheap insurance policy when you think about it.

Dave B

 

[Flameback Pair]

I own a ReefKeeper Lite Basic with an extra powerbar4 and an Apex classic with modules too numerous to mention. The Reefkeeper is for my frag/quarantine tank and it plenty sophisticated to power that. My Apex powers my Red Sea Reefer 250 and provides the basic functions of a controller: temperature control, light control and pump control not to mention bells and whistles that the Reefkeeper can't perform like auto feeder, leak detection, dosing, and alarms via text messages and emails plus much, much more.

 

[Daniel Bodily]

I'm going to go with a Desktop computer and a really controller

 

[Daniel Bodily]

Or maybe I can just hire someone to set in the aquarium stand and turn on and off everything as needed

 

[rockworm]

I've been playing with controllers for decades, and built my own using home alarm systems 20+ years ago. For the past 5 years I've been an extreme Apex User and gotten lots of people up and running with Apex. If you take the time you can get the Apex to do just about anything you want. The problem is .when you have it do everything, you end up risking everything.

Since Terrence was good enough to show off a bunch of fancy Orange cars to justify their company color scheme, I will use an auto as an example. 1000's of Ford Mustangs drive off the lot every day. Now let's be honest, they all aren't bright orange. But the fact is behind every Ford Dealership is a Ford Service center. But for most people they get in their cars, they put in their gas and they drive happily around. And the Apex is pretty good at letting the average Joe pop open a box and start controlling and monitoring their aquarium.

But then you have the people that soup up the stereo, slam the suspension, put on the bigger tires, and throw on the turbos. If you are one of those people that has built a custom car, or owned a custom car, or has a friend that owns a custom car. You know that every time you drive it, there is something that you need to go home and work on. And if you are like me and have owned boats you know this example well.

When you start having the Apex do everything it is capable of doing the reliability factor (in my extensive experience) becomes an issue. The people that have 'fully loaded' Apex units overlook this because they love their tinkering and all their custom features. And at that point have spent so much time rebooting it and reflashing it that it less than 100% functional and/or reliable becomes the 'norm'.

And while the cloud 'functionability' and 'accessibility' is really cool - When the cloud service does an update and unbeknownst to you your heater outlet instead of being switched on/off based on your aquarium temp.... turns into an oscillating pump outlet - Guess how you discover this?

Or perhaps you set your Alkalinity to dose 15ml, and the cloud tells you it's 15ml and then you discover its actually putting in 750ml.

With any controller regardless of manufacturer, or 70's color scheme - be wary of what you let them control. All of them are just another component (built by the cheapest bidding circuit manufacturer) we add to our aquarium - and components fail ( and around salt water - much more often). I don't let controllers turn main pumps on. I will use a relay or contactor to shut the pump off. But in the event my controller 'hiccups' my water keeps circulating.

And someone is going to say -- Well my power bars are smart and I can set them to revert to an on or off state. Well that's a great feature when things are working normally. But when the skimmer mate hits the fan --- there is never a guarantee that this will work.

If you have a controller now, run this scenario.... Santa Claus comes down your chimney while you're sleeping. Santa sees your sexy Aquarium controller. Santa says I want that for Missus Clauses 120g SPS tank and grabs your controller, runs up the chimney, yells at Rudolph and away your controller goes. Now hopefully as Santa is committing this felony, you don't hear him because you are upstairs in your large palatial house having the time of your life with the 2 Victoria's Secret Models who stopped by earlier in the evening to deliver you the check for your winning super lotto ticket --- Do I have you attention (and imagination now)? The following morning when you stroll downstairs, walking a little bowlegged, whats the status of your tank without it's all mighty controller?

Make sure that when Santa steals your controller, that your aquarium will be able to survive without it. You don't have to buy duplicates of every piece of equipment. But you should make sure that the basics - Flow and Temp - are configured to maintain your livestock - if Santa should nab your controller.

And the other thing I recommend to everyone that has a controller is, where is your spare? The brains of the controllers is pretty inexpensive compared to the entire 'controller' system. And I guarantee if you have a full controller on your aquarium, the cost of a spare brain is way less than the value of the corals on just the first 5" on the left side of your tank. Amazing customer support and tech support (no matter where it is in the world) can't fix what is broke on your tank.

All those cool outlets telling you the watts your consuming, those probes telling you your stats, those laborious lighting schedules you wrote to simulate the dusk /dawn lighting on that little island where you first met your supermodel 'second' wife in the South Pacific -- All that is useless. Think about all those things your controller is monitoring and controlling on your tank at this very minute. It's Friday night. On Saturday morning when you wake up and discover Santa jacked your controller. What's your tank going to do till Marine Depot can drop a new controller at your door step on Tues or Weds? Buy a spare brain!!!! These are little computers running our tanks - have backups just like you have for your computer. Keep your programming backed up (on the cloud perhaps) and keep your brain updated if you make major changes to your configuration.

5 years ago my friend who lives 20 minutes away and I split the cost of a spare Apex brain. 5 years later he has 2 of his own spare brains, and I have 2 back ups as well. Go ahead, click over and find out how much a spare Apex brain costs, then look at your tank and tell me how many corals you have in your tank that are worth LESS than the cost of that spare brain. It's a cheap insurance policy when you think about it.

Dave B

Holy crap. Gotta tldr, cause this is a convoluted mess. Think I will stick with my GHL Profilux

 

[DanP-SD]

Given your experience with the Apex, I really would like to know what part of the Cerebra interface was more appealing to you? I assume you mean the interface on the unit itself since there really isnt much done yet with an app or cloud interface for it. So what would make that more appealing than the Apex Fusion interface on a tablet? What would you like to see?

I ask this sincerely as it helps me understand the desires of our customers.

Primarily, the clean look and feel, but it also looks very easy to navigate. Fusion is great but I have a lot of components (5 energy bars, two BOBs, 3 WAVs and more) and it gets a little cumbersome. I haven't demoed the Cerebra but it looks like it plays more like an iOS-styled interface.

 

[yellojello]

My Apex has been solid since 2010 and still going. Although one of my power outlets in my EB8 died from my clamp light falling into sump. Controls my temp, heaters, fans, lights.

Started with Bubble Magus triple autodoser, but died after 2-ish years. Switched to Vertex Libra stepper in 2013 and still running smooth.

Skimmer, pumps, power heads, reactors all on power strip with manual individual switches.

Gravity fed top-off with float switch/float valve combo. Level-Loc Autotop off unit since 2010. I think it's discontinued now?

 

[Lloydxmas]

Ok, as the OP, I want to clear up the question of vendor input. I appreciate the input by vendors in this industry into this discussion. IMO they bring valuable knowledge and expertise about their products and the industry in general. I absolutely appreciate @Terence's posts and feel he has contributed greatly to this discussion. I wish that reps from GHL, Vertex, DA, Puratek, Reef Angel, and anyone else in the industry would also come in to offer clarification on their own products as well as perspective in comparison. Maybe it isn't "the German way" or maybe they're too busy packing boxes to join us here, but in any case, WE are the ones who lose out by not benefiting from their knowledge.

Now, I know everyone in this discussion may not agree with me on this point, but I'm going to respectfully ask that moving forward, we keep this point of conversation out of the thread. Discussing who should and should not comment is actually off-topic and derails the thread. Let's keep future comments on subject and avoid throwing shade on others for commenting or not commenting. Thanks.

I value the vendors views to a point but this entire thread turned into an apex commercial because every other post is from apex. Almost every user comment is replied to by apex. IMO, way to much input from a vendor if you really want to have the users of these products discuss them

 

[Robthorn]

Too bad 1 of my controllers switches nothing off and on and only monitors temp, ph and salinity. Just got it back from repair maybe 3 months ago and it is at the manufacturer right now for repair. 3rd time in a year on this one. The first repair was a new complete board. All you get back that was original was the sparkling clean never seen a drop of water case.
Another one runs a small tank for my wife that monitors ph and temp and switches the lights, and pumps off and on. Very minimal programming. It has died completely once. It is not on the internet.

Am I really to believe I am maxing these controllers out and that is why they keep failing?

All 3 of these units are at different locations and 1 is a different city. Not like my house gets blasted everyday with power spikes killing them. Which did happen on mine for 1 of the repairs but I did not list that break down because it was not the manufacturers issue. That was a full board replacement so no residual damage was possible there.
So we have 1 in repair right now and need to send another one back for repair as well. Lol Just how many back ups are we supposed to buy?

 

[BCSreef]

All 3 of these units are at different locations and 1 is a different city. Not like my house gets blasted everyday with power spikes killing them. Which did happen on mine for 1 of the repairs but I did not list that break down because it was not the manufacturers issue. That was a full board replacement so no residual damage was possible there.
So we have 1 in repair right now and need to send another one back for repair as well. Lol Just how many back ups are we supposed to buy?[/QUOTE]

If your houses get "blasted everyday with power spikes", you would be losing other electronics left and right. Can't be your power.

Did your Profilux ship/arrive yet? If not, any word on ship dates?

Trying to decide whether to go cheap and upgrade my RKE (with it's many modules) to Archon or look at Profilux or Apex. Based on my own experience (not terrible, not great) along with comments in this thread and other threadss, leaning towards Profilux.

 

[Daniel Bodily]

My Apex has been solid since 2010 and still going. Although one of my power outlets in my EB8 died from my clamp light falling into sump. Controls my temp, heaters, fans, lights.

Started with Bubble Magus triple autodoser, but died after 2-ish years. Switched to Vertex Libra stepper in 2013 and still running smooth.

Skimmer, pumps, power heads, reactors all on power strip with manual individual switches.

Gravity fed top-off with float switch/float valve combo. Level-Loc Autotop off unit since 2010. I think it's discontinued now?

You more then like just need a 3 dollar relay that just unplugs for the unit

 

[Flameback Pair]

What controllers work with Chromebooks, Macs, Windows phone, and other platforms that are off the beaten path?