Bio media in sump

[Dc1338]

I about about 1000ml of matrix in my sump along with a few boxes of the biomax. Is it going to be okay if I take all the live rock out of my sump? I'm having a high nutrient issue and I believe that the sump is that reason.

 

[Poseidon03]

I about about 1000ml of matrix in my sump along with a few boxes of the biomax. Is it going to be okay if I take all the live rock out of my sump? I'm having a high nutrient issue and I believe that the sump is that reason.

Let's look into stuff before jumping into changes quickly. Any quick changes can cause disruptions in the microbiome.

First off, what's the age and size of the system?

What nutrients are high?

What fish and corals do you have?

Do you have live rock in the display?

Do you have sand in the display?

Do you have a skimmer?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

How much rock is in the sump? What about the display? Why you feel you need something in the sump? What is the nutrient levels and why do you feel its caused by the rocks in the sump?

I agree there is not enough info to make a suggestion

 

[Fish Fan]

I'll make one suggestion: I'd ditch the Matrix and Biomax. These medias (any "white" biomedia) have been known to leach aluminum, and in general "extra" biofiltration is not needed in a saltwater tank. Your rocks, sand and other surfaces grow plenty of beneficial bacteria:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...e-frequent-waterchanges.1163945/post-14428908
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/is-it-possible-to-have-too-much-bio-media.1146779/post-14157134
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aqpet-bio-block.1141034/post-14060271
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/high-aluminum-in-reef-tank.1154530/post-14287237

I hope this helps!

 

[exnisstech]

Live rock is my preferred media in a sump and isn't a cause of high nutrients.
I have to dose to keep N and P above zero in this tank.

I also think people are too fast to blame higher levels of N and P for problems.
Fat hungry fish and my heavy feedings causes high levels but they're not an issue.

 

[Cael Gallery]

I about about 1000ml of matrix in my sump along with a few boxes of the biomax. Is it going to be okay if I take all the live rock out of my sump? I'm having a high nutrient issue and I believe that the sump is that reason.

It will be fine if you take the live rock out. There will already be more than enough surface area for nitrifying bacteria in the rock in the display and in/on the sand bed, so it won't cause an ammonia spike or anything.
That being said, i'm not sure how the liverock would be responsible for high nutrients.

 

[Dc1338]

I about about 1000ml of matrix in my sump along with a few boxes of the biomax. Is it going to be okay if I take all the live rock out of my sump? I'm having a high nutrient issue and I believe that the sump is that reason.

It will be fine if you take the live rock out. There will already be more than enough surface area for nitrifying bacteria in the rock in the display and in/on the sand bed, so it won't cause an ammonia spike or anything.
That being said, i'm not sure how the liverock would be responsible for high nutrients.

I have about 15lbs of live rock on top of all that media. Its trapping detritus in the refugium section. I’m looking into biospheres

 

[Fish Fan]

I’m looking into biospheres

Please see my post above. Any of those fake bio medias can leach heavy metals, and many here at R2R would not use them.

What are your parameters? What do you think is high?

 

[Dc1338]

I was looking into the maxspect biospheres for the media. My phosphates are over .9 and nitrates are around 70-80 with weekly water changes.

 

[Dc1338]

I’m looking into biospheres

Please see my post above. Any of those fake bio medias can leach heavy metals, and many here at R2R would not use them.

What are your parameters? What do you think is high?

I was looking into the maxspect biospheres for the media. My phosphates are over .9 and nitrates are around 70-80 with weekly water changes.

I do run gfo as well

 

[Fish Fan]

I was looking into the maxspect biospheres for the media. My phosphates are over .9 and nitrates are around 70-80 with weekly water changes.

I do run gfo as well

Well than Biospheres and the like won't do anything to lower nitrate or phosphate

 

[Dc1338]

I was looking into the maxspect biospheres for the media. My phosphates are over .9 and nitrates are around 70-80 with weekly water changes.

I do run gfo as well

Well than Biospheres and the like won't do anything to lower nitrate or phosphate

it’s more for cleaning up the detritus in the sump. my current rocks are covered in aptasia as well

 

[Poseidon03]

it’s more for cleaning up the detritus in the sump. my current rocks are covered in aptasia as well

Do you have a skimmer? What size tank?

 

[Dc1338]

it’s more for cleaning up the detritus in the sump. my current rocks are covered in aptasia as well

Do you have a skimmer? What size tank?

yes and it’s a 88 dt and 20 sump

 

[slingfox]

Please see my post above. Any of those fake bio medias can leach heavy metals, and many here at R2R would not use them.

What are your parameters? What do you think is high?

My guy, biosphere cannot leach heavy metals. It is pure plastic. Whether it is useful for a reef aquarium or not is another issue.

 

[slingfox]

I'll make one suggestion: I'd ditch the Matrix and Biomax. These medias (any "white" biomedia) have been known to leach aluminum, and in general "extra" biofiltration is not needed in a saltwater tank. Your rocks, sand and other surfaces grow plenty of beneficial bacteria:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...e-frequent-waterchanges.1163945/post-14428908
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/is-it-possible-to-have-too-much-bio-media.1146779/post-14157134
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aqpet-bio-block.1141034/post-14060271
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/high-aluminum-in-reef-tank.1154530/post-14287237

I hope this helps!

Those quotes are all from RHF who I have tremendous respect for but there is no evidence that biomedia actually leaches aluminum in a reef tank. Any aluminum leaching concern can be easily verified by an ICP.

That said, I don’t see how removing live rock from the sump fixes the issues OP has.

 

[Fish Fan]

Those quotes are all from RHF who I have tremendous respect for but there is no evidence that biomedia actually leaches aluminum in a reef tank. Any aluminum leaching concern can be easily verified by an ICP.

That said, I don’t see how removing live rock from the sump fixes the issues OP has.

RHF has confirmed this by ICP (I'll try to find a link), that's why he doesn't suggest using this kind of media. He also suggests that it can be a net negative because (and he's just theorizing here) "extra" bio media can uptake ammonia that could otherwise benefit corals. When it comes to this kind of thing, I 100% trust Randy's judgement.

If the Biospheres specifically are a different material, then I was unaware of that, and you may be right about that particular product.

 

[slingfox]

RHF has confirmed this by ICP (I'll try to find a link), that's why he doesn't suggest using this kind of media. He also suggests that it can net negative because (and he's just theorizing here) "extra" bio media can uptake ammonia that could otherwise benefit corals. When it comes to this kind of thing, I 100% trust Randy's judgement.

If the Biospheres specifically are a different material, then I was unaware of that, and you may be right about that particular product.

For Seachem Matrix specifically, there has been extensive leaching testing on the product with ICP and it has shown no detectable leaching. The key caveat is much of that testing has been by freshwater and pond hobbiest but there is no reason to believe it would be different in a reef aquarium. Other biomedia did show leaching in those head-to-head tests. Seachem Matrix however seems safe.

 

[Fish Fan]

For Seachem Matrix specifically, there has been extensive leaching testing on the product with ICP and it has shown no detectable leaching. The key caveat is much of that testing has been by freshwater and pond hobbiest but there is no reason to believe it would be different in a reef aquarium. Other biomedia did show leaching in those head-to-head tests. Seachem Matrix however seems safe.

Perhaps, but to get back to your previous point, here's just a few examples I've found where RHF and many others suggest that any white bio media can leach metals such as aluminum, detected by ICP, and while that aluminum may or may not be a problem, Randy still advices removing the media since it's not useful in his opinion.

Here's an example where aluminum was high via ICP, several responders including the OP felt that ceramic media could be to blame, and Randy advised not using any white ceramic media:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aluminum-in-my-reef.1164974/

Here's another thread with Randy and others suggesting that high aluminum on ICP is from Marine Pure media:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/causes-for-high-aluminum.1099858/#post-13356040

Here again he says to remove Marine Pure Bio Plates because they may be leading to high ammonia (from an ICP test), and that they are not necessary useful:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/marine-pure-blocks-aluminum.886443/post-13884256

Between this post and my other post there's at least five or six examples where Randy is advising not to use "extra" biomedia, either out of concern for aluminum, or out of a belief that they are of little value.

I'll ask, what value do you feel that they offer?

 

[exnisstech]

RHF has confirmed this by ICP (I'll try to find a link), that's why he doesn't suggest using this kind of media. He also suggests that it can net negative because (and he's just theorizing here) "extra" bio media can uptake ammonia that could otherwise benefit corals. When it comes to this kind of thing, I 100% trust Randy's judgement.

If the Biospheres specifically are a different material, then I was unaware of that, and you may be right about that particular product.

For Seachem Matrix specifically, there has been extensive leaching testing on the product with ICP and it has shown no detectable leaching. The key caveat is much of that testing has been by freshwater and pond hobbiest but there is no reason to believe it would be different in a reef aquarium. Other biomedia did show leaching in those head-to-head tests. Seachem Matrix however seems safe.

Ya I'm thinking it is ceramic media that leaches IIRC. I'm not familiar with bioshperes, never had a reason not to use rock or rubble.