Bolus dosing

[BeanAnimal]

I don't think it is a marketing gimmick, but rather baggage that spilled onto the floor.

My take.... They either got it wrong to begin with an never noticed, or the product used to have carbonate in it and they never adjusted the calculator due to oversight or now wanting to make waves with an established product. Consumption is variable and based on a lot of factors and nobody knows their exact tank volume, so nobody ever really cared to dig deeper.

So along comes Bolus and Claude does what he does and describes a bunch of pros to sell the idea and his balling salts. Old Tank Syndrome claims get called out, and he digs in. More claims, more call outs, and the hole starts to get deeper. Suddenly people are analyzing the bolus claims and the calculator questions come to light... No pun (ohh so many puns there).

 

[Luminous74]

That could very well be the case. When you take a closer look at the products, you’ll find many different dosing recommendations for the same product on the website. I’ve never understood why that is. It’s clear to me that it’s difficult to provide universal dosing recommendations because no two tanks are the same. But I don’t understand why the bottle says 5 ml per 100 liters, while an online product guide recommends 10 ml per 100 liters. It’s probably just poorly maintained documentation. But so be it. Sometimes, it’s just the way it is: we’re searching for the Holy Grail that will make our corals bigger, more beautiful, and more colorful. A good marketing expert knows how to play into this desire, and we follow along like lemmings until someone brings us back to reality and reminds us that, in the end, we really know nothing.

 

[Garf]

I don't think it is a marketing gimmick, but rather baggage that spilled onto the floor.

My take.... They either got it wrong to begin with an never noticed, or the product used to have carbonate in it and they never adjusted the calculator due to oversight or now wanting to make waves with an established product. Consumption is variable and based on a lot of factors and nobody knows their exact tank volume, so nobody ever really cared to dig deeper.

So along comes Bolus and Claude does what he does and describes a bunch of pros to sell the idea and his balling salts. Old Tank Syndrome claims get called out, and he digs in. More claims, more call outs, and the hole starts to get deeper. Suddenly people are analyzing the bolus claims and the calculator questions come to light... No pun (ohh so many puns there).

I'd also be interested in finding out if users are actually getting 100 grammes to dissolve in a litre. It appears that undissolved stuff at the bottom is expected/encouraged. Fauna sais it doesn't matter, which could easily account for a reduction of 5 - 10% potency. Also the imprecise method of adding the water. Before you know it you've got another 10 to 20% reduction in potency. That's fine normally, you can just turn up the dosing rate. It's not fine when making a new science based on it's consumption.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think it is 500g per 5L (total) from the instructions that I read and based my response to Claude on. So yes 100g per liter. But you pour in 25ml of trace and then fill paste 5L to fill jugs instructions, I presume to get the extra to dissolve.

So yes, if there is leftover, then that may further reduce the total alkalinity as well as the extra volume of trace and water… so 10ml can’t be 0.5 dKH contribution even on a perfect day.

See my YT response. I am open to being wrong but, I can’t see how he can be right. The math does not add up.

 

[Garf]

I think it is 500g per 5L (total) from the instructions that I read and based my response to Claude on. So yes 100g per liter. But you pour in 25ml of trace and then fill paste 5L to fill jugs instructions, I presume to get the extra to dissolve.

So yes, if there is leftover, then that may further reduce the total alkalinity as well as the extra volume of trace and water… so 10ml can’t be 0.5 dKH contribution even on a perfect day.

See my YT response. I am open to being wrong but, I can’t see how he can be right. The math does not add up.

I'll actually retract what I said about the expected undissolved bit, that appears on the old instructions, not the new instructions. Why they have left that bit out is confusing.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I'll actually retract what I said about the expected undissolved bit, that appears on the old instructions, not the new instructions. Why they have left that bit out is confusing.

The new ChatGPT derived instructions? Ha…I starting to wonder

 

[Garf]

The new ChatGPT derived instructions? Ha…I starting to wonder

Lol; I blame this chap;

 

[Garf]

If I can go back to this post;

Bolus dosing

Does it help sell the idea that the expected dose of alk was supposed to raise the tank to xxx but instead some of it will be released slowly throughout the day? I do think garfs idea that perhaps the bolus or light blast or both shocks the corals into not calcifying for a number of hours...

www.reef2reef.com

Fauna say that the aqua calculator is correct, ie. 14mls in 100 litres will increase DKH by 0.5

The new calculator (apparently the corrected one) says 10 MLS to do the same job.

Did they only correct the calcium part?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I am in the gym and can’t do the math right now now, but that would equate to 0.46 or so (14ml) of solution at 0.33 per 10ml.

If that is the case, it is closer but still can’t account for anything weaker than bicarbonate being mixed with bicarbonate for 100g per Liter. And, I quoted him directly from their public calculator and he did not correct me or the dose and only argued strength and pH. So still something off anyway you slice it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If I can go back to this post;

Bolus dosing

Does it help sell the idea that the expected dose of alk was supposed to raise the tank to xxx but instead some of it will be released slowly throughout the day? I do think garfs idea that perhaps the bolus or light blast or both shocks the corals into not calcifying for a number of hours...

www.reef2reef.com

Fauna say that the aqua calculator is correct, ie. 14mls in 100 litres will increase DKH by 0.5

The new calculator (apparently the corrected one) says 10 MLS to do the same job.

Did they only correct the calcium part?

The calculator on their own web site is not correct by their own statement?
I’m getting confused lol

 

[Garf]

The calculator on their own web site is not correct by their own statement?
I’m getting confused lol

Was a while ago;

Balling light dosing: product description vs Aquacalculator?

I decided to switch from ATI Essentials to the Full FM light method, just got home from the LFS where they ordered me the full set Big package and also bought the FM salt bucket just to have 100% FM: The manual at FM says: Dosage: Calculate the correct dosage with the Aquacalculator: At...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[BeanAnimal]

This whole thing is a debacle any way you slice it. You have to wonder if his lab guys (whoever they may be) are having heart palpitations behind the scenes… or if they are driving this?

 

[Garf]

This whole thing is a debacle any way you slice it. You have to wonder if his lab guys (whoever they may be) are having heart palpitations behind the scenes… or if they are driving this?

After a little snooping, it appears the person confirming that the calculator was wrong back then (@Fauna Marin ) is actually Claude himself. Perhaps he has an explanation as to why the current calculator and dosing instructions are so far off from the aqua calculator, which was declared correct at that time.

 

[Hypnotize]

From the AquaCalculator,
The old Recipe says 28ml/100L/1dkh
The new 20ml/100L/1dkh

And what I found was the instructions say add the 100g in the 5L container and fill it up (by filling it up you add more then 5L so that’s probably why there isn’t any dissolved left on the bottom of the container)

 

[elysics]

The aquacalculator is a purchase product, so I did not check that

But on FM web site right now is this calculator, where they already supply incorrect text which matches the bucket claim earlier noted.

Fauna Marin Lab

high-level ICP, IP and titration water analysis

lab.faunamarin.de

"ALK/KH 10ml/100 Liter + 0,5 dkH"

That text from the calculator matches calculator result and the bucket claim, but in reality, there is only going to be 0.33 dKH from that addition based on measured alkalinity titration of the dry product.

I assumed there is no protected alkalinity in the product somehow. I do not see any possibly way there could be based on analysis of the product. Formate and other organics would show up by IR (they did not). The presence of formate would also reduce the immediate measured alk potency of the dry product since most of the formate will not be detected by an alk test (formate pKa is about 3.7, so an alk titration running down to the low 4's will miss more than half of it). Thus, the delayed alk cannot be from formate plus bicarbonate.

They seem to have changed it in 2022 when the aquacalculator was replaced with a new app

From the AquaCalculator,
The old Recipe says 28ml/100L/1dkh
The new 20ml/100L/1dkh

And what I found was the instructions say add the 100g in the 5L container and fill it up (by filling it up you add more then 5L so that’s probably why there isn’t any dissolved left on the bottom of the container)

The even older one from the older version of aquacalculator also say 20ml, not 28, so that's even weirder. Then they changed it to possibly be correct and then changed it back

 

[Garf]

From the AquaCalculator,
The old Recipe says 28ml/100L/1dkh
The new 20ml/100L/1dkh

And what I found was the instructions say add the 100g in the 5L container and fill it up (by filling it up you add more then 5L so that’s probably why there isn’t any dissolved left on the bottom of the container)

105% ??

 

[elysics]

105% ??

Yep that's in the old aquacalculator too. The internal DIY formulation engine doesn't lign up with the FM dosing values that are hardcoded in

 

[Pod_01]

105% ??

When you buy FM Balling light set you get one free windows license for the AquaCalculator. At least when I got the set it was included.
Because of the sponsorship I suspect the AquaCalculator developers will put in what ever FM provides them.

 

[elysics]

When you buy FM Balling light set you get one free windows license for the AquaCalculator. At least when I got the set it was included.
Because of the sponsorship I suspect the AquaCalculator developers will put in what ever FM provides them.

Not just them, it's got many brands manufacturer claims included, that's one of the main draws of the tool, it's like a library of available brands. What's a bit more spicy is with salt buckets, there's a switch there between parameters as reported by the companies and parameters as analysed by the guy making the tool.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Never used the calculator but to humor you guys. I am dosing about a ml per gallon a day to achieve 8.2 KH.. And for Randy's consumption: when I describe coral growth as "better", an example would be a 4 inch sps colony gaining 50% in mass in 2 months and because I have significant flow, most of my corals are prone to grow in girth as much as length. Have at it folks.