Bolus dosing

[Oldreefer44]

So just for clarification, since you started the FM Balling Light method you have not added any Ca? Calcium part has Trace 1 and 2 so it is interesting that the tank is happy.

Mg I am not surprised, when I used FM Balling system my tank didn’t need it either.

It was trending up after I added S which contained Mg. Or perhaps the other way around Mg mix that contained S.

Out of curiosity how much Alk are you adding each day?

About a ml per gallon for Alk.. I initially did dose some Ca but nothing for the last 20 days or so and only a few ml. Your Mg chart is pretty much the same as mine.

 

[ReneReef]

Found this in my aquarium related archive.
This is the old Balling light manual from Fauna Marin. I downloaded this from their website, about 15 years ago. It also came printed out with their Balling Light starter set.

I don't know when they changed to the current more colourful packaging and replaced the manual for the current version.

The manual lists the exact contents of the Ca/Mg/KH parts. Its very "Light" in the number of ingredients used.
Back in the day I replaced these with cheap food grade alternatives, as was very common practise back then.
I doubt that FM has changed anything, apart from hiding what the ingredients are.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Once I use up the original supplies which appears may be a year or so I may decide to try other trace elements based on

 

[Oldreefer44]

how the ICP results compare to past ones that were pre FM products. On another note I did notice that trace elements 3 has the exact same coloration as Red Sea AB+

 

[IntrinsicReef]

Doug is recommending here to raise alkalinity with bicarbonate dosing to try and counter low pH. When I have tried to achieve 8.3 pH with bicarbonate dosing, I end up raising the alkalinity to the point of precipitation on pump magnets, and then pumps stall. This is a bit ironic considering their stance on precipitation. Bicarbonate dosing might achieve natural pH on a farm with good ventilation and few people breathing CO2, but many hobbyists have their tanks in homes full of people and other pet animals.
I dose multiple systems with 3 part. Some using soda ash, and some using baking soda as the alkalinity base. I have switched alternately between soda ash and baking soda on the same systems. I have always achieved a higher average pH with soda ash. Baking soda is cheap and easy to source, and I would say most hardy corals don't mind the pH in that 7.9-8.15 range that I achieve with baking soda and an alkalinity 8-10. But to offset excess CO2 in the tank and achieve more natural pH, I end up utilizing methods like Kalkwasser and soda ash.
This really irks me that he is giving non-specific advice to raise the alk, and that the pH then "should stay where it needs to be." I can just imagine a hobbyist coming home from from a weekend away to discover a stalled main pump.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The advice to raise the alk to boost pH has a basis in reality, though it is small. A boost of 0.1 pH units requires a boost in alk of about 7 dKH to 9 d KH.

But the statement that it will then stay there after allowing the alk to drop back to where it was has no basis in reality.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The advice to raise the alk to boost pH has a basis in reality, though it is small. A boost of 0.1 pH units requires a boost in alk of about 7 dKH to 9 d KH.

But the statement that it will then stay there after allowing the alk to drop back to where it was has no basis in reality.

Randy - may I remind you that you were educated in the dark ages of the 1980's and Doug has a coral farm in the 2020's, and in this decade aquariums dosed with FM bicarb have a "memory" that can be trained. (maybe nanites? -- and all of this back and forth is to hide their real tech?)

Anyway, how dare you disagree with one of the brightest minds in modern reef chemistry! Doug could have been a chemist, but has elevated himself above that profession! So go create medicines and let the "real reef chemists" educate us!

 

[rishma]

Randy - may I remind you that you were educated in the dark ages of the 1980's and Doug has a coral farm in the 2020's and in this decade aquariums dosed with FM bicarb have a "memory" that can be trained. (maybe nanites and all of this back and forth is to hide their real tech?)

Anway, how dare you disagree with one of the brightest minds in modern reef chemistry! Doug could have been a chemist, but has elevated himself above that profession! So go create medicines and let the "real reef chemists" educate us!

I would like to train my alkalinity to stay.
Good boy.

 

[Garf]

Can we all agree that the combination of Faunas calculator shenanigans, the impossibility of total Alk concentration at normal temperatures, and quite frankly the agricultural scientific methods applied can account for all alkalinity weirdness. If so, I'm really interested in improvements in coral growth, real or not.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Coral growth is a reality, at least for me. Why is another matter. Is it the lighting intensity increase? Is it the timing of everything involved? Is it the differences in AFR vs. Bolus products? Impossible to prove one way or the other without time consuming and expensive lab experimentation (and least in my opinion). Regardless of the validity of what FM claims and their lack of math ability, something about it does work. My suspicion is that it is mostly due to the lighting and would work with almost any three part.

 

[areefer01]

Coral growth is a reality, at least for me. Why is another matter. Is it the lighting intensity increase? Is it the timing of everything involved? Is it the differences in AFR vs. Bolus products? Impossible to prove one way or the other without time consuming and expensive lab experimentation (and least in my opinion). Regardless of the validity of what FM claims and their lack of math ability, something about it does work. My suspicion is that it is mostly due to the lighting and would work with almost any three part.

All that matters at the end of the day is that you are happy with it. Whatever one is doing.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

I just watched yesterday's ReefBum interview and I heard a quote from Claude that might indicate a change in his Bolus presentation. The quote is "If I do that with Bicarbonates, the effect is totally different. Because bicarbonates first reduce the pH, then it goes up. At the end, when I have the same alkalinity, I will have the same pH."
Hasn't he been saying that bicarbonate will immediately raise the pH upon addition?

 

[6272862829]

I just watched yesterday's ReefBum interview and I heard a quote from Claude that might indicate a change in his Bolus presentation. The quote is "If I do that with Bicarbonates, the effect is totally different. Because bicarbonates first reduce the pH, then it goes up. At the end, when I have the same alkalinity, I will have the same pH."
Hasn't he been saying that bicarbonate will immediately raise the pH upon addition?

They are also now saying that calcium reactors and kalk work but for experience reefers like Sanjay lol. So in the end this is all marketing to get the inexperienced reefers into and all inclusive fauna marine method. IMO

 

[IntrinsicReef]

They are also now saying that calcium reactors and kalk work but for experience reefers like Sanjay lol. So in the end this is all marketing to get the inexperienced reefers into and all inclusive fauna marine method. IMO

Yes, I noticed that as well.

 

[Big E]

They are also now saying that calcium reactors and kalk work but for experience reefers like Sanjay lol. So in the end this is all marketing to get the inexperienced reefers into and all inclusive fauna marine method. IMO

Sanjay is awesome............every podcast he always asks to prove it or it's worthless. His lectures are always fact based too.

 

[6272862829]

Sanjay is awesome............every podcast he always asks to prove it or it's worthless. His lectures are always fact based too.

I agree

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I just watched yesterday's ReefBum interview and I heard a quote from Claude that might indicate a change in his Bolus presentation. The quote is "If I do that with Bicarbonates, the effect is totally different. Because bicarbonates first reduce the pH, then it goes up. At the end, when I have the same alkalinity, I will have the same pH."
Hasn't he been saying that bicarbonate will immediately raise the pH upon addition?

lol. That is what I published in 2002, and repeated multiple times in this thread.

Time to move on…

 

[6272862829]

lol. That is what I published in 2002, and repeated multiple times in this thread.

Time to move on…

Move on time lol.

 

[twentyleagues]

I just watched yesterday's ReefBum interview and I heard a quote from Claude that might indicate a change in his Bolus presentation. The quote is "If I do that with Bicarbonates, the effect is totally different. Because bicarbonates first reduce the pH, then it goes up. At the end, when I have the same alkalinity, I will have the same pH."
Hasn't he been saying that bicarbonate will immediately raise the pH upon addition?

Yes but that is why their product is different! Its not bicarb but its bicarb so its different. You see?

 

[Superlightman]

From what I saw in different German forum and what app chats about bolus:
- most of the people seem to see improvement in ph, growth... not all but a lot 95% probably
- it can take a while before you experience the effect depending on how long and what you did dose before, people struggle the most seems to come from ATI carbonate dosing
- FM KH was a mix at the beginning but now contains only bicarbonate + a secret ingredient probably a polymer as they say they are polymers inside
- but the bolus effect has nothing to do with this secret ingredient, you can achieve the same with just bicarbonate, but they said to use only their product as they don't want to be responsive it people kill their tank by dosing carbonate or other stuff they don't know what is inside. And for sure not manufacturer will endorse competitors products
- if I understand it right, they are no crystals.. In the product, but the bicarbonate in the reef tank create a kind of crystals that are released later in the tank and make a delay response and explain the bolus effect
- the mechanism is complicated and at the beginning they saw the positive results but don't understand exactly how it works, this is why there is no answer yet. Claude works with scientist on the topic to be able to explain it scientifically in more details soon.