Bolus dosing

[BeanAnimal]

Is Keith Broke? He seems to be a pretty honest guy with a lot of SPS colonies to lose? No? Maybe a bit more credit due?

What a silly response. He has made a business out of reefing, was the point. Maybe a bit more credit for the rest of us who have done this for as long, but not opted to monetize it? Are we of lesser intellect or reefing prowess?

 

[Mo.]

I’ll just reiterate for folks who have not read the last 88 pages, I have nothing against the method itself. I do not know how or if it is better or worse than the many other methods folks use.

What I do have a huge problem with is the science fiction used to “explain” it.

I don’t believe the thread started out this way. You guys were pretty adamant that the pied piper had come to town from my recollection. The explanations from Doug and FM were gradually introduced and came later?

Excuse if I recollect our conversations incorrectly.

 

[Mo.]

Definitely not “running”

The train flew right off the cliff and exploded spectacularly. What’s left is the burning embers from the Bolus dose of fuel from when the train landed

Lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ve tried it on my tank for a good few months now. Not seen the gradual decline in SPS that the bolus stressor doses apparently should cause. Strange one.

I certainly never expressed such an opinion. To say “should cause” serves to conflate one persons opinion on expected results with the scientifically sound criticism of the wild “explanations” which is the main focus of this discussion.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don’t believe the thread started out this way. You guys were pretty adamant that the pied piper had come to town from my recollection. The explanations from Doug and FM were gradually introduced and came later?

Excuse if I recollect our conversations incorrectly.

The explanations from Claude and Doug gradually evolved to be more and more ridiculous and they went on a global podcast tour trying to get ahead of the mess, but only making it worse. It culminated in tantrums and having their hosts remove YT comments that shows them to be insanely wrong. Claude couldn’t even defend his own calculator against his own product concentration and I think he choked on one of his shoes trying to do fuzzy math.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t believe the thread started out this way. You guys were pretty adamant that the pied piper had come to town from my recollection. The explanations from Doug and FM were gradually introduced and came later?

Excuse if I recollect our conversations incorrectly.

Hogwash. I suggest you reread it.

I stand by every single thing I have said in this thread.

The wild explanations continued over time and i dealt with every one.

But this thread started May 27. On May 28 I blasted FM using a point by point critique of their own posted words.

None of that said anything about corals not responding well.

 

[Mo.]

The FM alk part of the bolus method has been analyzed and I reported the results in this thread : sodium bicarbonate.

Since this method has many parts, neither you nor anyone else using and loving the method can validate that the bolus aspect alone provides the improved results you see, unless you chose to not follow the method and just bolus dosed the alk additive.

Folks liking this method really need to get off defending the method and hear what folks are saying. Few folks are criticizing the overall method and no one is telling folks to not use it. Folks have successfully been bolus dosing and fast ramp up lights for a long time with success.

It's the act of adding the alk part all at once that is in question, and what benefit, if any, it provides over everything else the same except alk dosing spread out to maintain specific alk levels.

Hi Randy,

Just a little note that you might not know.
The bolus method started out as only the alk bolus dose.

The lighting schedule changes were subsequently added. Many of the early observations regarding pH/ alk changes were “defined” without the lighting schedule changes.

I believe the reason for suggesting that FM potions are used is that the composition of the trace elements mixed with alk in the balling light method is heavy on halogens and it is believed by some that halogens protect corals from sun damage and free radicals.

I know you don’t agree that halogen traces such as iodine have any effect at all, but it’s what’s been said by “the other side”

I thought I’d just add that for those that may not know why the light boost was added into the method.

Ps- I don’t work for FM or are sponsored by them. I have read and had many conversations with them about the methods.

 

[Mo.]

Not sure about Reef Bum (never got corals from him), but Frag Garage did offer beautiful corals before BOLUS. I am not sure how BOLUS can improve on that nor how he would observe improvement.

Going to Frag Garage site I can see he is only offering FM dry goods, so I can see why he would state that he is using the method.

Also on the Frag Garage site he states that he is using Calcium reactor + bulk additives…

Hmmm….

Best to wait and see what he says rather than question his character? Hmmm.

 

[Mo.]

Did you ever see the YouTube comment sections before FM had most of them turned off?

Even if the claims were true, I’d still use somebody else’s sodium bicarbonate and not give a dollar to FM simply because of how they treat people

I saw it. I think many commenters were being rude and personal. My feeling is that in the reason they were switched off, but who am I to say….. just my guess. I wasn’t surprised that they were switched off.

 

[Mo.]

In the last 20 years of my reefing journey and most of that being far too active on forums, I can think of hundreds of alkalinity overdoses. I can’t actively recall one where they lost the whole tank or even a partial crash. I’m sure they are out there and I’d bet they were soda ash.

My opinion is that it is the giant pH swing and not the alkalinity swing.

I mean 20 years ago we were all dumping in bicarbonate in one go. 100, 200, 300ml or more in one go. Dosing pumps were not cheap and easy to get.

Was that a lot?

 

[areefer01]

What a silly response. He has made a business out of reefing, was the point.

Faun Marin is a sponsor of RB's channel and/or some of his content. Only makes sense that he is adopting their methodology.

Maybe a bit more credit for the rest of us who have done this for as long, but not opted to monetize it? Are we of lesser intellect or reefing prowess?

This was more or less my thought.

 

[Mo.]

For me, it was when I remembered. Usually after work

So why are people still questioning alk spikes and coral stressors Leading to reduced growth as potential explanations of the method of it is in fact ancient and everybody has used it successfully in the past. What gives?

Nobody said any of this back in July when I first posted. I was met with basic flabergast and ridicule. lol.

Funny how the narrative (to my eye) has changed. Just saying.

 

[Mo.]

I’m not suggesting ordinary reefers should do such experiments. I’m thinking the FM folks who are proposing explanations would be much better served and be more believable if they did experiments to support their assertions.

I understand that few products actually show any sort of evidence, and that’s its own problem, but when proposing something that is very unusual, and that has been criticized by scientists for not being convincing, it seems reasonable to ask for them.

That said, all of the methods you mention have easily understood mechanisms of action. There’s no debate among scientists of how these work. Additionally, I did and published studies on the pH effect of hydroxide and carbonate and bicarbonate on seawater long before recommending sodium hydroxide. Hydroxide has also been heavily used for decades as kalkwasser.

I would expect a similar set of questions for me if I suggested something unusual.

Hmm. By a similar rationale, They’re using bicarbonate. Same as in your 2 part. Proven?!

 

[BeanAnimal]

I saw it. I think many commenters were being rude and personal. My feeling is that in the reason they were switched off, but who am I to say….. just my guess. I wasn’t surprised that they were switched off.

Rude and personal? I know drunken sailors with better conversational manners than Doug. If you are going to run interference for these guys, at least be honest. The comments got turned off and removed when both of them talked themselves into holes and it was clear that they had been bested by fact.

 

[rtparty]

I saw it. I think many commenters were being rude and personal. My feeling is that in the reason they were switched off, but who am I to say….. just my guess. I wasn’t surprised that they were switched off.

As Elon Musk said, “The cure for misinformation isn’t censorship, but better information.”

Had FM been professional and courteous they likely would have seen a very different path and attitude from the skeptics. Instead, they were extremely rude from the very get go. They tried to fight fire with gasoline and IMO it totally backfired on them

 

[Mo.]

What a silly response. He has made a business out of reefing, was the point. Maybe a bit more credit for the rest of us who have done this for as long, but not opted to monetize it? Are we of lesser intellect or reefing prowess?

No need to call me Silly, Bean. It was a valid point. His integrity was being questioned. It was a personal point about Keith’s integrity. No need to add your credibitly into the discussion, nobody questioned it.

 

[Mo.]

Faun Marin is a sponsor of RB's channel and/or some of his content. Only makes sense that he is adopting their methodology.



This was more or less my thought.

He was sponsored by many others. It didn’t necessarily follow, as I don’t think he uses everything from his sponsors he may have accepted their sponsorship because he thought they had legs to start with. Who knows. But it’s no need to question his integrity, just wait for him to show his ongoing results.

 

[Pod_01]

Best to wait and see what he says rather than question his character? Hmmm.

Say what, whose character? You lost me again… hmmm…

I love Frag Garage corals…
I buy their corals, I don’t see how BOLUS will make amazing corals better…

I don’t have any experience with Reef Bum corals, I only purchased his book “

A ReefBum’s Guide To Keeping an SPS Reef Tank – A Blueprint For Success”​

 

[Mo.]

Rude and personal? I know drunken sailors with better conversational manners than Doug. If you are going to run interference for these guys, at least be honest. The comments got turned off and removed when both of them talked themselves into holes and it was clear that they had been bested by fact.

I didn’t see that, I did see a lot of rude comments on somebody elses you tube stream. Almost like it got hi jacked.

As I’ve said before, I’m not affiliated, just interested. Sorry I didn’t see what you saw…. Just saying.

 

[Mo.]

Say what, whose character? You lost me again… hmmm…

I love Frag Garage corals…
I buy their corals, I don’t see how BOLUS will make amazing corals better…

I don’t have any experience with Reef Bum corals, I only purchased his book “

A ReefBum’s Guide To Keeping an SPS Reef Tank – A Blueprint For Success”​

The hmmm gave it all away. I don’t believe I lost you. Anyway- let’s move on.