Bolus dosing

[Garf]

Thats what I thought. Thats one of the selling/talking points of this "system" isnt it?

With regards to the calcium carbonate particles that attract organics and cause cyano and other nastiness when they settle out [evil kalk] it seems odd to me that he's made recent vids about making a coral smoothie food that contains calcium carbonate powder, lol.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With regards to the calcium carbonate particles that attract organics and cause cyano and other nastiness when they settle out [evil kalk] it seems odd to me that he's made recent vids about making a coral smoothie food that contains calcium carbonate powder, lol.

Even more clear, SunnyX and many others dose calcium carbonate particles to get rid of cyano (which seems plausible by binding and reducing organics).

 

[twentyleagues]

Even more clear, SunnyX and many others dose calcium carbonate particles to get rid of cyano (which seems plausible by binding and reducing organics).

I dose it as well. Right after the tank was set up I got a little (very little) green/yellow type of cyano or whatever it was before I started dosing snow. It was not the reason I started dosing it though. I dont know if the coral snow fixed the issue or if it was the other stuff I regularly do that fixed it or if it (snow) was a large factor in very little ugly stage in my tank (basically just the tiny amount of the green stuff above). I do know the water is crystal clear the next day and for days after. It has done nothing to the plentiful vermetid snail population I have (many people say it helps to control them). I see no effect to any parameters that I test on a regular basis with hobby grade tests.

 

[carbl]

A graph from the reefbum video and one of the reasons why he switched back. Some acros lost color and some died. Whether this is directly attributable to bolus is, as always, difficult. But it is just an example of a rather negative experience that stands in contrast to the great promises made by the manufacturer. As always with products, there are such and such experiences. No one-size-fits-all.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you very much for posting that. I don’t see the alk stable/plateau that was mentioned by others. The left side appears to be the sort of daily variation one expects from once a day dosing.

 

[WILDREEFER1000]

Reef

Something about high pH around 8.6, very high demand, 900ml daily, lost some corals and a lot of precipitation

He not complain about precipitation at all. He complain about high iodine and high pH and alk swings.
For the iodine as the kh consumption get higher with bolus so do the trace dosing if you not adapt it. the trace 3 that has the iodine inside this is normal, he could just adapt the trace 3.

For high pH that is the goal and not the problem not unterstand why he complains.. And it shows actually that it works...
For alk swings for sure you will have as alk will go higher and drop and the end of the day when the system used it this is also not a problem. I not lose a coral with bolus and even when dosing pump was empty pH stay stable the next day . He had probably other problems and that with the red colors fading is probably linked to the not adapted traces.
That he consume 900ml a day is a good sign it show the system grows fast. But he is true that is the boring part of bolus as bicarbonate is not concentrate when you have high consumption than you need to refill often.
At the end I do not know if their is a secret Ingredient in bolus or not but it works for high pH we are a few people that give the proof for that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

At the end I do not know if their is a secret Ingredient in bolus or not but it works for high pH we are a few people that give the proof for that.

I am waiting for anyone to provide evidence of the bolus effect, and to literally show the pH is higher than 24/7 dosing of alk to maintain alk at the peak of whatever alk the bolus attains. I do not recall anyone actually being clear what is being compared to what. I’ve basically given up asking. No one wants to actually provide evidence.

Lots of claims and so little data. None that I can recall provides what is needed to claim the bolus effect itself has an unusual effect on pH.

Perhaps you can provide it?

A perfect experiment to convince me would be to do exactly the sort of experiment posted above. Track alk and pH when dosing bolus, then suddenly switch to spread out dosing, maintain alk at the peak obtained by bolus dosing, and observe both the alk and pH over several days with both methods.

 

[BeanAnimal]

His entire video is an attempt to kindly and tactfully say that the method was not a good idea and did not do what is claimed.

 

[Orito]

His alk peaked over 11dkh and at the end of the cycle was around 7dkh, I don't care about total stability but even for me that's a lot for a day...
English is not my first language, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned a lot of precipitation, and to me makes sense, since he was pouring a massive amount of alk at once

 

[Garf]

I'm pretty sure he mentioned a lot of precipitation

Yes, he does say that, you are correct.

 

[Garf]

For high pH that is the goal and not the problem

Pretty sure one of the goals of this method was to restrict max pH to 8.3 8.4ish to avoid precipitation issues. However, I have very little confidence in the pH calibration methods shown thus far.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

His alk peaked over 11dkh and at the end of the cycle was around 7dkh, I don't care about total stability but even for me that's a lot for a day...
English is not my first language, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned a lot of precipitation, and to me makes sense, since he was pouring a massive amount of alk at once

There’s a big difference in pH for a tank controlled at 11 dKH and a tank controlled at 7 dKH.

For anyone to claim anything special about the pH attained by bolus dosing, which I’m not saying you are claiming, it is inappropriate to compare it to steady alk at 7 dKH.

 

[WILDREEFER1000]

I am waiting for anyone to provide evidence of the bolus effect, and to literally show the pH is higher than 24/7 dosing of alk to maintain alk at the peak of whatever alk the bolus attains. I do not recall anyone actually being clear what is being compared to what. I’ve basically given up asking. No one wants to actually provide evidence.

Lots of claims and so little data. None that I can recall provides what is needed to claim the bolus effect itself has an unusual effect on pH.

Perhaps you can provide it?

A perfect experiment to convince me would be to do exactly the sort of experiment posted above. Track alk and pH when dosing bolus, then suddenly switch to spread out dosing, maintain alk at the peak obtained by bolus dosing, and observe both the alk and pH over several days with both methods.

I not have comparison with dosing balling 24,because befor I had all for reef, Ati essential +, modern reef. All were dosed 24/24.My Ph was 7,8-8,1 for the lowest method, 8-8,3,-8,4 for the essential plus. I never had such high, but it took a few weeks to reach this point and only worked without the CO2 scrubber. In the bolus what app group they are people that did the 24/24 with the balling light and tell the pH is way better with bolus other not, but often they still had CO2 scrubber..
I have apex for tracking ph, but for the alk I have only the hanna checker.
I can give you the data you want for the bolus dosing but I scare a bit to go back to 24/24 dosing particulary with the actual light schedule as with bolus the light is stronger and scare to burn corals.
I dose bolus 8h 30 in the morning. Tell me what measurements and a what time you want I can do it for you so we can advance in this discussion with facts

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dose bolus 8h 30 in the morning. Tell me what measurements and a what time you want I can do it for you so we can advance in this discussion with facts

There’s not a lot that one can do monitoring bolus alone to show what it does relative to what the same additives would in the same tank dosed in a spread out fashion.

That’s really my whole issue. I am not doubting anyone’s success with or without bolus dosing. It is the claim of certain attributes of bolus dosing that is contrary to expected chemistry. That can only be done in the way Reefbum showed, although his choice of comparator changed more than just the bolus aspect.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Wait - is the claim (or interpretation) that for one to use the "stronger" light schedule, one has to BOLUS dose, otherwise burn their corals??

 

[Pod_01]

Wait - is the claim (or interpretation) that for one to use the "stronger" light schedule, one has to BOLUS dose, otherwise burn their corals??

Going by memory, the FM claim was since the trace elements (halogens) are in the Alk they need to be added before the lights come on to provide protection … It was discussed in this long thread at some point…

Randy did point out that it makes no difference when trace elements are added, morning, evening, lunch etc… assuming they provide Sun protection

My recollection may be spotty and the claims did change often … not sure what the latest FM claim/ explanation is…

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Going by memory, the FM claim was since the trace elements (halogens) are in the Alk they need to be added before the lights come on to provide protection … It was discussed in this long thread at some point…

Randy did point out that it makes no difference when trace elements are added, morning, evening, lunch etc… assuming they provide Sun protection

My recollection may be spotty and the claims did change often … not sure what the latest FM claim/ explanation is…

Which could only make sense if iodine was the active entity. Bromide is pretty stable since it is vastly higher in concentration, and fluoride cannot possibly act as an antioxidant.

 

[WILDREEFER1000]

Which could only make sense if iodine was the active entity. Bromide is pretty stable since it is vastly higher in concentration, and fluoride cannot possibly act as an antioxidant.

I experienced at the start of bolus when my iodine was low burned corals, so now I keep higher levels.

 

[Oldreefer44]

There’s not a lot that one can do monitoring bolus alone to show what it does relative to what the same additives would in the same tank dosed in a spread out fashion.

That’s really my whole issue. I am not doubting anyone’s success with or without bolus dosing. It is the claim of certain attributes of bolus dosing that is contrary to expected chemistry. That can only be done in the way Reefbum showed, although his choice of comparator changed more than just the bolus aspect.

IMO, therein lies the problem of comparing results when every one of us will be coming from different data points based on what we were doing before. I can only state, as I did months ago, that when I was using AFR and kalk dosed throughout the day I had an average PH

 

[Oldreefer44]

of 7.8. After starting the Bolus method it rose to an average of between 8.1 and 8.2. To me that it is only a comparison to what I was doing before which may or may not have been an effective methodology.