Bubbling SPS disease

[justy]

I completely agree here. The only reason plausible reason I could think of regarding this is around concentration of the pathogen. As it replicates you would expect it to reinfect in the new tank.

The reason I anticipate it to be more about our system is I haven’t been able to find anything in scientific literature regarding this specifically, so I’m thinking it’s more about our artificial conditions but could be wrong. This is the closest I’ve found:

A Novel Investigation of a Blister-Like Syndrome in Aquarium Echinopora lamellosa

This study investigates potential causes of a novel blister-like syndrome in the plating coral Echinopora lamellosa. Visual inspections of this novel coral syndrome showed no obvious signs of macroparasites and the blisters themselves manifested as fluid-filled sacs on the surface of the coral...

journals.plos.org

@justy do you have any Cyanobacteria mats growing in your tank?

Thanks for the link hadn't seen that before.
No cyano, tank looks, otherwise normal.

 

[justy]

To me it almost seems the flesh is growing faster than the skeleton… which is weird cause normally the skeleton will grow faster and cause issues on the tips etc.. the other thing that baffles me is you’d think these pieces would rtn or stn at first signs and they don’t.. :thinking-face:

Re. Rtn and stn yes you are right, its as if the coral is otherwise healthy and trying it's best to survive but just can't shake it off.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Remember, this statement below is for humans, but blistering is blistering and often caused by friction, heat, or bacteria.

Do bacterial infections blister?

The sores are often itchy, but usually not painful. The sores develop into blisters that break open and ooze fluid -- this fluid contains infectious bacteria that can infect others if they have contact with it.

Common strep throat often blisters as well.

The only imbalance in chemicals that would cause blisters is of you added two chemicals that had a chemical reaction to each other and caused burns. We know that isn't the case because other corals are not blistered. I am not aware of any supplement that can cause that reaction unless you dump a ton of Kalkwasser in the tank at once and it would have to be a ton. I still don't think that would cause the blisters either.

It's bacterial. There really isn't anything else it could be. Not in my mind anyway.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry it took me a while to get a photo. This is one of the worst acros affected. Again, I initially noticed it first in one acro and it has since moved to several others. I have lost a couple from it. I wonder if it is something bacterial or if they are responding weirdly to some element.

Either increased alk and/or Calcium in addition to elevated temp may be cause

 

[Troylee]

Look at the bright Side of thangs fellas… we got bounce sticks and they should fetch more than a shroom… :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Look at the bright Side of thangs fellas… we got bounce sticks and they should fetch more than a shroom… :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

LOL, yeah never understood that. A blistered warted up mushroom brings that price. You know what cause those mushrooms to blister up? Most likely the same or similar, bacteria :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

 

[Troylee]

LOL, yeah never understood that. A blistered warted up mushroom brings that price. You know what cause those mushrooms to blister up? Most likely the same or similar, bacteria :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

Agreed! So we can say “Xxxx xxxx xxxxxx” is spreading a std? Hahahahaha I know where the og shrooms came from

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Agreed! So we can say “Xxxx xxxx xxxxxx” is spreading a std? Hahahahaha I know where the og shrooms came from

In all honesty, that's about what's happening.

 

[Reefer Dan]

Emailed two more researchers today, likely won’t get a response, but here is a progress photo. (Each pic is a week).

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Emailed two more researchers today, likely won’t get a response, but here is a progress photo. (Each pic is a week).

Those are good photos.

 

[Reefer Dan]

Those are good photos.

Thanks. I actually heard back and sent photos I posted in post #113. I’m going to test my theory that my LEDs have diminished in output and need to be turned up and see what happens. See below for response from NOAA

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Thanks. I actually heard back and sent photos I posted in post #113. I’m going to test my theory that my LEDs have diminished in output and need to be turned up and see what happens. See below for response from NOAA

Well, not once did they mention bacterial infection. I personally don't think the lights have anything to do with it. If they were wore out, then they would just start l turning brown. I don't see them blistering. Hang in there and when you're done racking your brain, get some Cipro :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

 

[Reefer Dan]

Well, not once did they mention bacterial infection. I personally don't think the lights have anything to do with it. If they were wore out, then they would just start l turning brown. I don't see them blistering. Hang in there and when you're done racking your brain, get some Cipro :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

I think most documented coral diseases are bacteria so I think that was implied. But at least we have a plan Z, atomic option if we get there.‍

You seem extremely confident that it’s bacterial, but how can you be so sure?

 

[Reefer Dan]

Update, it’s been about 1 week or so since I turned my LEDs up 1% on intensity. A tiny less bubbling, but not a massive noticeable difference. Plan to up it by about 5% over the next 5-8 weeks, I did notice some overall improvement in my acros.

Order of photos:
Wk 1 wk 4
Wk 2 wk 5
Wk 3

 

[Rjmul]

Yea this is still a mystery for us. Neoplasia and hyperplasia are like cancers and most people are not aware of this issue with acropora. No one has had luck with any dipping or additives that I have talked to. The only way to get it to go away that I know of, is to move the coral to a completely different system. I have seen a number of people say they gave the coral to a friend and it healed. Risky for the friend if they have any other acropora in their tank. I am guessing it can spread to other corals.

I have had it and got it to go away somehow only thing I did was lower calcium from 420 to 375 and made sure mag was below 1400. I would suggest you make sure your mag and alk and calcium are in balance with each other using the red field ratio. Then just keep things as stable as possible.

If anyone has this issue it would be best to not sell fragments. Also stay away from corals that are for sale that have the fat tulip looking polyps.

Calcium Alk and mag in balance with redfield ratio ? Seems like word soup. Can you elaborate on this being a cause of the tulip polyp ?

 

[Rjmul]

Is it possible to connect any commonalities between different systems suffering with this syndrome?
Is Biotec or Abiotec.
I thought for a while it was lighting, maybe to much blue light like the hypothesis that this causes mushrooms to bounce.
Or heavy metals, my icp showed elevated metals, Cu, Zn, Fe.
Just some thoughts.

I've been heavily combing threads for a couple days. I'm seeing a lot of carbon dosing. That's the only real common denominator I've seen. Many people are suggesting an imbalance of "the big three". In my opinion if you're this far down the rabbit hole with acropora, that's likely not the issue. I've also talked to one guy on another forum who noted it went away when he stopped using all for reef. BUT I think he was also carbon dosing, and stopped that. Waiting on clarification.

 

[Rjmul]

The only changes I’ve made in the past month to my care routine (when I started noticing this) are:

• Increased elements a/k (tropic marin) from 1.5 to 3 mL of each per day. This is what their dosage calculator recommends for my tank.—this is my bet, probably a build up of something resulting in the corals trying to deposit elements in their tissue to remove the toxicity.
• @justy i did Replace t5 bulbs, 1 per week. —lots of people do this and haven’t reported problems, so I anticipate not the issue.
• Dosing live phytoplankton ~40-60 mL/day. — unlikely an issue unless cultures were contaminated, but I’m thinking highly unlikely.
• Dosed magnesium to bump it from 1250-1300 ppm.- unlikely an issue.

I’ve been doing lots of reading on this and some people think it’s bacterial or viral. If this were the the situation, I would expect it to affect more than just 3 acros that I’m aware of (1-2 bubbling and 2 with tulip polyps). I suspect a water chemistry issue, that would explain the differing tolerances of the different acros?

I’m thinking I likely had a buildup of trace elements (may be completely wrong). I’m going to hold off on dosing my daily trace elements for a week and see if I notice anything.

Anyone know any coral pathologists that we could contact about their input?

Any chance you did an ICP to confirm or disprove this suspicion ? I'm waiting on one to be delivered. Are you carbon dosing ? Are you using all for reef ?

 

[Rjmul]

I have some xr15’s between my halides as supplements but they have zero punch so I don’t believe they have any effect on it personally. Only thing I’ve changed is I started dosing all for reef on top of my kalk top off.. my calcium tends to run high and I’m not sure why… 530-550 with a dkh of 10…

+1 for all for reef. I'm in the same boat AFR/kalk

 

[Reefer Dan]

Any chance you did an ICP to confirm or disprove this suspicion ? I'm waiting on one to be delivered. Are you carbon dosing ? Are you using all for reef ?

I sure did an ICP, here are the results. I am not carbon dosing.. I do dose live phytoplankton. I do not use all for reef.

 

[Troylee]

I sure did an ICP, here are the results. I am not carbon dosing.. I do dose live phytoplankton. I do not use all for reef.

So the only thing me and you have in common is high calcium lol… weird.. it’s gotta be some kinda bacterial thing! Weird part is it doesn’t spread, at least not in my tank or anyone that has put the coral in a different tank and it fixed the issue..