Can sps be kept with higher phosphate?

TLO45

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I’m curious if anyone is currently keeping acros with higher phosphate and/phosphate? I know nitrates are perhaps less critical but here are my current questions.
my system is ~2 years old. Started with dry rock and bare bottom. After 1 1/2 years I had what seemed like a lack of biodiversity which would be understandable with the start of dry rock and bare bottom. I was adding bottled bacteria’s of different strains and did have some bio bricks from a past system which I thought would be enough to seed the dry rock. After 1 1/2 years I was having difficulty keeping a wide range of sps. Some pieces did ok while others died. In an attempt to get things rolling ( and patience running out!) I added bagged (live ) sand. This seemed to help for a bit but then Cyano and Dinos hit hard. Phosphate and nitrates were zero or at least unreadable on my tests. I started adding nitrate and phosphate to help raise levels to readable levels. Without luck I ended up dosing chemiclean and within a couple weeks the tank looked as clean as it has since the day I started.
Now to my question. Since adding chemiclean my nitrates stay steady at 25 and phosphate at .15 which I realize is above the normal levels. However the tank continues to run clean. I have been dosing phytoplankton daily without issues. I’m curious what everyone feels maybe the reason some sps do well and others fail? Plating pieces like caps seem to do well while some acros stn. I’m thinking it maybe the higher phosphate and nitrate but hesitate to lower thinking Cyano may return. Thoughts?
 

nezw0001

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I've run my predominately SPS (plenty of high end SPSs) with parameters that are similar. I don't think that is your issue.

How stable is your ALK? How are you monitoring it? How are you adjusting ALK?

What lights are you running? What is your PAR?

When your SPS die what happens? die from the tips in or base up? Or just white overnight? do they brown out first? How long does it take for them to start dying?
 
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TLO45

TLO45

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The pieces that die usually start on the base and work up. Sometimes on the body. Funny thing is I have pieces with good color, others never take off at all.
Alk has been pretty stable around 9-9.5 dkh. I run a Dastaco CA reactor.
I started lighting with Radion x15 G4 pros. Tank is 120”L x 33”W x 22”H. I took par roughly 6 months ago and found it to be very low 175 ish at most. Since then I mounted Radions on a tilt and use them as supplemental and put a 4 bulb fixture down the middle. Honestly have not tested par since. Have been running that combo since I tested low par. I test Alk and phosphate with a Hanna checker. Other tests are done with traditional sailifert tests.
I was debating switching back to halides for I was always a halide guy. LEDs was new to me and although I probably should have gone with the x30’s the cost of the x15’s was enough to make me sick and with the shorter tank height thought I could get by.
 

minus9

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With dry rock, I think it's more of an issue of lacking biodiversity of (beneficial/good) bacteria. I would suggest dosing Biodigest Prodibio biweekly (if not weekly to start) and PNS Probio (w/Yello Sno) weekly. Or, find some good ocean rock and put it in your sump or all of the above.
 
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TLO45

TLO45

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With dry rock, I think it's more of an issue of lacking biodiversity of (beneficial/good) bacteria. I would suggest dosing Biodigest Prodibio biweekly (if not weekly to start) and PNS Probio (w/Yello Sno) weekly. Or, find some good ocean rock and put it in your sump or all of the above.
Any rock sources you can recommend? 25 years ago all you could get was live rock. Now almost all is dry or real reef rock. Not real live rock.
 

minus9

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Any rock sources you can recommend? 25 years ago all you could get was live rock. Now almost all is dry or real reef rock. Not real live rock.
I think a lot of rock is coming out of Florida, but I have heard rumors of Pacific rock coming in, but haven't found a source. Honestly, you don't need much, but maybe find someone else near you and do a group buy to split the cost? I hear you, in the 90's we never tested for anything. We threw live rock in, added a big skimmer and flipped the switch on metal halides (and a few water changes).
 
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TLO45

TLO45

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I think a lot of rock is coming out of Florida, but I have heard rumors of Pacific rock coming in, but haven't found a source. Honestly, you don't need much, but maybe find someone else near you and do a group buy to split the cost? I hear you, in the 90's we never tested for anything. We threw live rock in, added a big skimmer and flipped the switch on metal halides (and a few water changes).
Exactly! Miss those days!
 

Big E

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You just need one piece of rock to get seeded. How about asking a local reefer with an established tank to put a piece of your rock in their sump or back of the tank for a month? I'd even pay the guy

I've heard good things about KP aquatics rock and Tampa Bay is back in business.

Garf grunge is also an easy way to go. It's just some detritus filled rubble but loaded with good bacteria,pods, ect.
 

Timfish

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Here's a paper and two videos. The first is one of my systems with PO4 a ~.4 mg/l, the second is by Richard ROss, who was a curator at the Steinhart Aquarium when this video was made. And I've tacked on thre other videos you might find informative.


500 Gallon Mixed Reef


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"


Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont
 

Tft12

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My system tended to run PO4 about 1.3 - 1.5 ppm. I had to shut in down at the end of 2019 but I’m restarting it at the moment. Corals colored up well enough and grew well enough - for me. Maybe growth and coloration could have been better with lower PO4 but I don’t like managing it. My colors were definitely darker but still colorful. My main display had no cyano but another display on the same system had some. My experience is that acros and montis do well enough in high PO4 but I don’t really have experience running “standard” PO4 levels, so I can’t really compare.

D7B3308F-F978-428C-B12A-ADF217FCC488.jpeg
 

guylaga

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I'm far from an expert but in my experience having elevated Phosphates (0.1 and up to 0.2 or so) does not harm acros.

Now caveat being I do not keep wilds, and half or more of my Acros have came from systems that run higher nutrients. There is no doubt however that growth is slower when my Phosphates are up around .2 comparted to being closer to .1 or lower.

My opinion is that stability across all parameters - pH, Alk, Ca, Mg, No3, Po4 ect... is more important than having "ideal" parameters.
 
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TLO45

TLO45

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Thanks for everyone’s responses. This system has been unlike any other I have had in the past. Longer mature time, bare bottom, higher nutrients, led lights ect. Appreciate your help!
 

Stigigemla

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It is normal for the pores in dry rock to be totally clogged after a year or a little bit more. You need a pound or 2 of real live rock from the sea or a tank with a living pod population. In the rock different kind of pods and small worms are living and they clean the rock continuously. You can never rinse the stones just by adding new bacteria.
 

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I've consistently had high Phosphate can't test with the Hanna checker unless I dilute with 2 ml sample and 8 ml RODI, usually over 2, never in this 0.anything range, I get decent coloration, but dosing acro power, feeding a little and chaeto grow I think helps with color.
 

Nerdist Aquarist

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My tank is is a transition stage going from high phosphates (over 0.4) to so called "recommended" levels around 0.06. I still have mostly frags, but over the last few weeks my alk/calcium uptake for 2 part has basically doubled. Seems the SPS were doing ok with higher phosphates, but not growing much. Now I'm starting to see the white tips indicating faster much growth.
 

Tmrvstyle

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I have mostly sps think it would be better if Phosphate were lower, but I've never been able to read it on the Hanna checker, dilution of the sample gets a high reading like 0.76, I tend to be around 1.9 to 2.4 and they grow, not ideal but stability is key keeps things going.
 
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