Can this bacterial phenomenon be explained?

[sixty_reefer]

Results after 13 hours (it seems that is repeatable), this time I’ve used 500ml containers and only half a shrimp for less interference.


3 hours in tank plus actif

nh4 0.05<
No2 0.05
No3 25
Ph 7.4
Kh 9

3 hours in LFS

Nh4 0.05<
No2 0.1
No3 1
Ph 8.1
Kh 7

5 hours in tank plus actif

nh4 0.05<
No2 0.1
No3 20
Ph 7.6
Kh 10

5 hours in LFS

Nh4 0.06
No2 0.1
No3 1
Ph 8.1
Kh 7

13 hours in tank plus actif

Nh4 0.05<
No2 0.9
No3 15
Ph 7.4
Kh 10.5

13 hours lfs

Nh4 0.06
No2 0.4
no3 5
Ph 7.8
Kh 7

additional 13 hours testing

13 hours tank before actif dosing

nh4 0.05<
No2 0.1
No3 10
Ph 7.4
Kh 10.5

13 hours LFS plus actif

Nh4 0.05<
No2 0.3
No3 0
Ph 7.6
Kh 7

it appears that the results are repeatable and once actif is added to the lfs water they become similar to the tank that is dosed actif regularly. It seems that this reduces ammonia effectively in a cycled system not so sure if it would work in a new system.

 

[brandon429]

I thought it was covered though that you can't use those kits to discern what ammonia is doing, that you'd need quality digital kits not affected by the stated interferences to do so?

 

[brandon429]

Where are the pictures of the readings allowing you to discern .06 from .05 nh4 based on a color gradient

What about nitrite impacts stated, this isn't long enough for nitrite interference to resolve

it means the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate still aren’t accurate here with the redo


How are the kits known to produce hundreds of thousands of false stall readings valid now for a precision test, then extrapolation back to actions from a doser purchased

Considering the growth of the other reef actif thread there is bias in favor of it here. It must be shown effective for a range of benefits to keep momentum.

 

[brandon429]

The lfs isn't using digital kits either, this test can't be reliably used to state anything about RA.

we are missing any of the controls or pictures or graphs that Taricha uses in cycling experiments.

When he uses non digital test kits in cycle measures there are myriad step down gradients by picture, to show levels, and dilutions provided- such detail and planning and controls to make the case.

You needed a calibrated seneye this whole time instead. I recommend get one, benchmark it on your running display, then redo the test posting the digital logs.

 

[sixty_reefer]

@brandon429 i don’t know we’re you seeing a biased opinion, if you look at the LFS water results that illustrate a standard system you will see that ammonia was in fact oxidised into nitrite, let’s not forget that nitrite only impacts the overhaul nitrates. If you look at the lfs water at 13 hours it actually produced nitrates also as expected from a standard system reaction to ammonia.

the only difference from the lfs to my tank was that from 5 hours onwards the nh4 test was slightly more green than the water with the carbon source. Both samples had ammonia in fairly similar levels that I can measure accurately with my tools although this would be fairly easily to recreate in lab settings.

going back to you referring to my bias opening if you reed through the other thread I’ve never mentioned that actif can reduce ammonia, I’ve read in the papers that that was one of the benefits from biofloc although I always thought that that part was being made by autotrophic bacteria.

 

[brandon429]

we need a calibrated seneye to avoid bias, and we need to see all the color pictures allowing those reports above.


how did nitrite have time to get resolved in a brand new experiment using half a shrimp, this means the nitrite and nitrate readings aren’t reliable as reported

without digital nitrite tracking from hanna, nitrite reporting here is not reliable. You are using test kits known to misrepresent what water bacteria do in reef tanks, I’m on page nine in another collection thread of misreads / 30+ examples of just the ammonia kit alone here completely misleading reefers on the status of their display reef bacteria. that same kit can’t automatically then become a reliable kit for proving Actif does a certain job


dont think this is being mean, you’ve made more effort to test actual tank bacteria in the last two months than I have made my whole time reefing, efforts duly acknowledged.

we still need a seneye calibrated on your running display though, I mentioned that three experiments ago. The money would be well spent considering your efforts, have TM send you one on their dime, they can see it’ll be lucrative to do so.

Dr. Reef got bottle bac companies to ship him six machines free of charge for his bottle bac experiments, you only need one


if you get a seneye and trim it/ calibrate it on your display reef first your cycle experiments will be the most savory on the board.

 

[sixty_reefer]

we need a calibrated seneye to avoid bias, and we need to see all the color pictures allowing those reports above.


how did nitrite have time to get resolved in a brand new experiment using half a shrimp, this means the nitrite and nitrate readings aren’t reliable as reported

without digital nitrite tracking from hanna, nitrite reporting here is not reliable. You are using test kits known to misrepresent what water bacteria do in reef tanks, I’m on page nine in another collection thread of misreads / 30+ examples of just the ammonia kit alone here completely misleading reefers on the status of their display reef bacteria. that same kit can’t automatically then become a reliable kit for proving Actif does a certain job


dont think this is being mean, you’ve made more effort to test actual tank bacteria in the last two months than I have made my whole time reefing, efforts duly acknowledged.

we still need a seneye calibrated on your running display though, I mentioned that three experiments ago. The money would be well spent considering your efforts, have TM send you one on their dime, they can see it’ll be lucrative to do so.

Dr. Reef got bottle bac companies to ship him six machines free of charge for his bottle bac experiments, you only need one


if you get a seneye and trim it/ calibrate it on your display reef first your cycle experiments will be the most savory on the board.

You still don’t get it, do you? It’s not the product it’s the content, same can be achieved with any other source of a carbohydrate, molasses, tapioca and sucrose are just a few that are common in biofloc. (If you want to use them in your system)
in case you didn’t knew nopox and diy nopox have carbohydrates although they contain other sources of organic carbon that stimulates different bacterias. Dnt get to attached to the product, the goal is to see the effects of organic carbon from carbohydrates.

soneye is still a diy method for ammonia imo

 

[taricha]

this time I’ve used 500ml containers and only half a shrimp for less interference.

Going in the right direction, but let's do a check of the scale.
Half a shrimp is ~5 grams with maybe 3% Nitrogen so .15g = 150mg of Nitrogen in 0.5 liters. So 300ppm of Nitrogen into the system in the form of messy organics - some solid some soluble.
Most of this is in the form of proteins. Roughly 1/6 of protein is Nitrogen. So maybe 1800ppm protein.

Do you know how your ammonia kit and no2 / no3 kit behave at 1800ppm protein or 300ppm Nitrogen?

Neither do we (actually i strongly suspect ammonia will be false low), so interpreting those numbers confidently is impossible.

If you want to show how the reef actif carbon source helps nitrification of ammonia, start with pure measurable ammonia (like 2 to 5ppm ammonia)

If you want to do it on shrimp, your concentration is like 100x too high to know what's going on.

I agree with your premise and think the carbon source can speed all of these processes.