Can we please treat corals for what they are?

[Ben549]

Wow.... more complaining.

Maybe it's a matter of perspective? I'm trying to improve things. If I just wanted to complain, I wouldn't have offered more ethical suggestions.

 

[exnisstech]

I like playing the games though. Codybot is the guy that runs the games. A lot of them have interesting facts that I end up googling because I want to know more.

Maybe just don't claim the mystery prize if you win. You could still have fun but not be disappointed by receiving a free coral you don't want

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

TLDR: Corals are animals with specific care requirements and deserve respect.

I can't believe that I have to say this but can we please treat corals as animals as opposed to dollar signs?

This post is directed at mystery frags and freebies where a customer is sent a random coral and is expected to be prepared to care for it.

You don't see Petco running promotions where if you buy a pet, you get a free mystery pet. Just imagine:
Petco: "Congratulations Timmy, because you bought that hampster you've won a mystery pet!"
Timmy: "Gosh golly! That sure is swell!"
Petco: "Guess what! That mystery pet is a python! I'm sure it will be fine in the same environment as your hampster......"

Before I go any further, I want to make it abundantly clear that I am not opposed to games, contests, prizes, etc. I am opposed to using animals to drive engagement without regard for the animals' wellbeing.

So now you're thinking: "This guy is pretty negative, I love getting free frags but I also care about these animals". Guess what? Me too, so here are a number of ethical ways to handle this:

1. Call them mystery frags during the contest/raffle. Once the winner is selected, tell them what it is, if they can't care for it, they can decline.

2. Call them mystery frags during the contest/raffle and state the care requirements for the coral. Once the winner is selected, tell them. If they can't care for it, they can decline.

3. Call them mystery frags during the contest/raffle. Once the winner is selected, tell them 5 corals and ask them to pick which ones they want. Then, send them one of those so that it is still a mystery to the winner.

Note: There are cases where this probably isn't an issue such as:
If a customer's order is 99% sticks, giving them a stick as a freebie is probably pretty safe.

So what led up to this you might ask?
Timeline:
Jun 19, 2023
@CodyBot : Congratulations on winning! Send me your shipping order number and I will issue you your prize. Thanks!

Ben549: any chance we can ask them to let me pick between a few options? I have a small tank and I would hate for them to send something I already have or something I cant care for.

CodyBot: Unfortunately, you are not able to pick a mystery frag. What I would recommend doing is to try and win the next game for a $30 GC. That way, you can claim the $30 GC, pass the mystery frag to the runner up, then use that GC towards the exact frag you want.

Ben549: do you want me to ask them?

CodyBot: The prize for this game is a mystery frag. The next game will have a $30 GC prize. That's the one you will want to shoot for.

Also, the first rule for my games in the first post of the thread specifies one prize per household.

You can ask TCK, but they're going to tell you the same thing. I'm just doing what I'm asked to do.


Jun 25, 2023
My email to @TCK Corals wrote:
Hi,

I won several freebies as part of your games on R2R. I have a small tank that's already really full. Would it be possible to work together so that I can get frags that I'm looking to put in the tank versus the trash (since the tank is so full)?

FWIW, I've been buying from you guys since 2019 and have been an advocate for you on R2R.

Thank you,
Ben

Jun 25, 2023
TCK Corals replied:

The frags wouldn’t be “mystery” frags if we did that. I assure you none of our frags are trash. If you end up with something you already have or don’t want, I’m sure you can find someone that will trade you. Thanks for shopping with us and for participating in our thread on r2r and congrats on winning. Let us know if we can answer any other questions.

Gregg

Jun 25, 2023
Oh wow, I haven't had a vendor be unwilling to work something out.

I don't trade corals and I don't have a QT tank so everything I get either goes in the display or gets thrown away. I'm not able to leave my house at this point which is why I buy corals online.

What if I provided you with a list of like 5-10 corals that TCK sells and you pick from that list? Then it's still a mystery of what I will actually receive.

Thank you,
Ben

Jun 26, 2023
My reply to TCK Corals wrote:

Hi,
I'm following up because I never received a response. Please let me know.

Also, can you tell me when my order is scheduled to ship?

Thank you

Jun 27, 2023
Received order shipped notice



This is really frustrating because if they would have just responded to my email on the 25th, I could have declined the mystery frags entirely.


What do you think? What would you do?

Honestly and I don't want to start a mess here.

You are unreasonable, ungrateful, and appear to be looking to be angered or outraged.

Getting mad about free coral... They aren't sentient beings.

I'm checking out on this thread. hasta.

 

[Ben549]

Maybe just don't claim the mystery prize if you win. You could still have fun but not be disappointed by receiving a free coral you don't want

100% agree! When I was filling my first tank back in 2017, I never had this issue with vendors. They would usually be willing to tell me what kind of light and flow the mystery coral needed and I could decline if I didn't have that. My first tank really wasn't set up for SPS so I would decline those.

 

[Ben549]

Honestly and I don't want to start a mess here.

You are unreasonable, ungrateful, and look to be angered or outraged.

Getting mad about free coral...

I'm checking out on this thread. hasta.

I understand your perspective. I didn't want this to be about free coral which is why I left that part at the very end, maybe it could have been worded better. This post is really focused on caring for these animals.

 

[Cell]

I understand your perspective. I didn't want this to be about free coral which is why I left that part at the very end, maybe it could have been worded better. This post is really focused on caring for these animals.

If this wasn't about continuing a crusade to get what you want and indeed just a conversation starter about the livelihood of the animals, then name-dropping and posting entire emails chains is completely unnecessary. It suggests other motives.

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

I understand your perspective. I didn't want this to be about free coral which is why I left that part at the very end, maybe it could have been worded better. This post is really focused on caring for these animals.

They aren't sentient beings. If you nuke one? Sorry coral. Just like a lemon tree that doesn't get north wind protection. Sorry lemon tree. Let's try again next fall with another lemon tree frag.

 

[Ben549]

If this wasn't about continuing a crusade to get what you want and indeed just a conversation starter about the livelihood of the animals, then name-dropping and posting entire emails chains is completely unnecessary. It suggests other motives.

I see what you mean. I shared that information to provide background and an example of how these things can happen since not everyone might be familiar with this practice.

 

[TCK Corals]

TLDR: Corals are animals with specific care requirements and deserve respect.

I can't believe that I have to say this but can we please treat corals as animals as opposed to dollar signs?

This post is directed at mystery frags and freebies where a customer is sent a random coral and is expected to be prepared to care for it.

You don't see Petco running promotions where if you buy a pet, you get a free mystery pet. Just imagine:
Petco: "Congratulations Timmy, because you bought that hampster you've won a mystery pet!"
Timmy: "Gosh golly! That sure is swell!"
Petco: "Guess what! That mystery pet is a python! I'm sure it will be fine in the same environment as your hampster......"

Before I go any further, I want to make it abundantly clear that I am not opposed to games, contests, prizes, etc. I am opposed to using animals to drive engagement without regard for the animals' wellbeing.

So now you're thinking: "This guy is pretty negative, I love getting free frags but I also care about these animals". Guess what? Me too, so here are a number of ethical ways to handle this:

1. Call them mystery frags during the contest/raffle. Once the winner is selected, tell them what it is, if they can't care for it, they can decline.

2. Call them mystery frags during the contest/raffle and state the care requirements for the coral. Once the winner is selected, tell them. If they can't care for it, they can decline.

3. Call them mystery frags during the contest/raffle. Once the winner is selected, tell them 5 corals and ask them to pick which ones they want. Then, send them one of those so that it is still a mystery to the winner.

Note: There are cases where this probably isn't an issue such as:
If a customer's order is 99% sticks, giving them a stick as a freebie is probably pretty safe.

So what led up to this you might ask?
Timeline:
Jun 19, 2023
@CodyBot : Congratulations on winning! Send me your shipping order number and I will issue you your prize. Thanks!

Ben549: any chance we can ask them to let me pick between a few options? I have a small tank and I would hate for them to send something I already have or something I cant care for.

CodyBot: Unfortunately, you are not able to pick a mystery frag. What I would recommend doing is to try and win the next game for a $30 GC. That way, you can claim the $30 GC, pass the mystery frag to the runner up, then use that GC towards the exact frag you want.

Ben549: do you want me to ask them?

CodyBot: The prize for this game is a mystery frag. The next game will have a $30 GC prize. That's the one you will want to shoot for.

Also, the first rule for my games in the first post of the thread specifies one prize per household.

You can ask TCK, but they're going to tell you the same thing. I'm just doing what I'm asked to do.


Jun 25, 2023
My email to @TCK Corals wrote:
Hi,

I won several freebies as part of your games on R2R. I have a small tank that's already really full. Would it be possible to work together so that I can get frags that I'm looking to put in the tank versus the trash (since the tank is so full)?

FWIW, I've been buying from you guys since 2019 and have been an advocate for you on R2R.

Thank you,
Ben

Jun 25, 2023
TCK Corals replied:

The frags wouldn’t be “mystery” frags if we did that. I assure you none of our frags are trash. If you end up with something you already have or don’t want, I’m sure you can find someone that will trade you. Thanks for shopping with us and for participating in our thread on r2r and congrats on winning. Let us know if we can answer any other questions.

Gregg

Jun 25, 2023
Oh wow, I haven't had a vendor be unwilling to work something out.

I don't trade corals and I don't have a QT tank so everything I get either goes in the display or gets thrown away. I'm not able to leave my house at this point which is why I buy corals online.

What if I provided you with a list of like 5-10 corals that TCK sells and you pick from that list? Then it's still a mystery of what I will actually receive.

Thank you,
Ben

Jun 26, 2023
My reply to TCK Corals wrote:

Hi,
I'm following up because I never received a response. Please let me know.

Also, can you tell me when my order is scheduled to ship?

Thank you

Jun 27, 2023
Received order shipped notice



This is really frustrating because if they would have just responded to my email on the 25th, I could have declined the mystery frags entirely.


What do you think? What would you do?

Ben549,

First off, I want to personally apologize for not getting back to you right away. We just hosted 2 of our largest auction events back to back, and we have been doing our best to respond to everyone.

Now, regarding the mystery frags. Those mystery frags were prizes for the games that @CodyBot ran during each of the two sale event days, which you participated and won in. Under no circumstances is it fair to anyone who participated and won in other games to allow you to "cherry pick" specific pieces from a list for said prizes won. If you requested to decline the mystery frags (either due to the size of your tank or because you didn't want to risk getting something you couldn't accommodate), to the game(s) runner up, we would have definitely allowed that and the runner up would have been ecstatic. We also have your order on hand, and would have picked mystery frags that coincided with your current order.

On the last note, TCK and many other vendors here on Reef2Reef put in a LOT of hard work and effort to cultivate and aquaculture rare, unique, colorful etc corals that are hardy and proven to thrive in the aquarium habitat with utmost level of care and attention.

With all of this said, if you would like to cancel your order, please email us at [email protected] or note it here in the thread/PM.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Ben549]

They aren't sentient beings. If you nuke one? Sorry coral. Just like a lemon tree that doesn't get north wind protection. Sorry lemon tree. Let's try again next fall with another lemon tree frag.

Yeah, I completely get that opinion. I think that's where we probably disagree, which is fine. I can respect your opinion even if it's different from mine.

 

[The_Paradox]

God I love this hobby. Take your favorite pet and start cutting them up slowly to see how long they live. Go to insane measure to keep them alive as long as possible. Get so giddy about your work you glue their mouth shut. Then if all goes well tape them up in a box and mail them in the dark to some rando with 3999999ppm NO3 so they can finish them off and throw the corpse in the trash or decorate with their skeletons. Good times.

 

[doubleshot00]

 

[Derrick0580]

Fwiw, any time I have received a freebie mystery coral it has always been in line with something I had purchased. I bought zoas and yumas and received a jawbreaker. I have never ordered any sps but would imagine most sellers wouldn’t send sun coral with a large sps order. Technically you got it for free so if it doesn’t fit your tank, pass on the love to a fellow reefer or maybe trade it to your lfs for something you want or need to do maintenance on your tank.

 

[billyocean]

TLDR:
Would it be possible to work together so that I can get frags that I'm looking to put in the tank versus the trash (since the tank is so full)?

..so why would you throw it in the trash if the whole point is the animals well being?

 

[afrokobe]

Fwiw, any time I have received a freebie mystery coral it has always been in line with something I had purchased. I bought zoas and yumas and received a jawbreaker. I have never ordered any sps but would imagine most sellers wouldn’t send sun coral with a large sps order. Technically you got it for free so if it doesn’t fit your tank, pass on the love to a fellow reefer or maybe trade it to your lfs for something you want or need to do maintenance on your tank.

crazy good freebie getting a jawbreaker

 

[Derrick0580]

crazy good freebie getting a jawbreaker

Well I bought a $300 yuma rock. Corals anon labeled them as “radioactive” but as they grow they are looking more and more like godzillas

 

[Ben549]

Ben549,

First off, I want to personally apologize for not getting back to you right away. We just hosted 2 of our largest auction events back to back, and we have been doing our best to respond to everyone.

Now, regarding the mystery frags. Those mystery frags were prizes for the games that @CodyBot ran during each of the two sale event days, which you participated and won in. Under no circumstances is it fair to anyone who participated and won in other games to allow you to "cherry pick" specific pieces from a list for said prizes won. If you requested like to decline the mystery frags (either due to the size of your tank or because you didn't want to risk getting something you couldn't accommodate), to the game(s) runner up, we would have definitely allowed that and the runner up would have been ecstatic. We also have your order on hand, and would have picked mystery frags that coincided with your current order.

On the last note, TCK and many other vendors here on Reef2Reef put in a LOT of hard work and effort to cultivate and aquaculture rare, unique, colorful etc corals that are hardy and proven to thrive in the aquarium habitat with utmost level of care and attention.

With all of this said, if you would like to cancel your order, please email us at [email protected] or note it here in the thread/PM.

Thanks,
Dan

Hi Dan,

I'm glad I made this post since it was able to get your attention! I think the part about

We also have your order on hand, and would have picked mystery frags that coincided with your current order.

was lost in translation because everything I was told was that it was a mystery frag (suggesting that it could be anything).

I didn't mean to say that cherry picking was the only option. Any of the options I listed in the original post would be fine. I probably could have phrased my messages more clearly. Hindsight is always 20/20.

If the freebies have the same care requirements as the other corals in the order, by all means, send them. For any that do not have the same care requirements as the other corals in the order, please exclude them.

I've been buying from TCK since 2019 and you guys always have awesome corals and they are always really clean!

 

[Fink]

I tend to agree with OPs premise about Mystery Frags, not just won frags, but also purchased mystery frags. I've bought mystery frags during live sales on a number of occasions and I'm generally happy with what I receive.... I feel like the seller pays attention to what I've generally been ordering and gives me something in line with that theme....

At a recent live sale I bought several frags (15-20), the vast majority of which were different encrusting/branching montis and cyphasterea... I also picked up a random mystery frag, which ended up being a galaxea... i would never ever buy a galaxea, but now I have one, and I need to cordon off a big section of my tank from an evil, killer, GSP cosplayer. I knew what I was doing when I took the risk, but now I'll probably never buy another mystery frag....

 

[Ben549]

Fwiw, any time I have received a freebie mystery coral it has always been in line with something I had purchased. I bought zoas and yumas and received a jawbreaker. I have never ordered any sps but would imagine most sellers wouldn’t send sun coral with a large sps order. Technically you got it for free so if it doesn’t fit your tank, pass on the love to a fellow reefer or maybe trade it to your lfs for something you want or need to do maintenance on your tank.

I've actually gotten SPS freebies with an order of softies and LPS so it can happen. I have no idea how common it happens though.

Nice score with the jawbreaker though, that's awesome!

 

[Ben549]

..so why would you throw it in the trash if the whole point is the animals well being?

Because it's one animal vs the ecosystem established in the tank. I don't want to throw anything in the trash! I would rather not receive it at all.