Cannot get nutrients balanced

[SOGavity]

For quite some time, I have been struggling with my tank and I cannot seem to get things to just balance out. My tank is about 1.5 years old. It was doing really well until about 5 months ago, I had to move quite a distance. Before the move, I did a 20 gallon water change every Tuesday. Used filter socks and did not have a refugium.

Every since the move my tank has been going into a spiral. I had a pretty severe algae and cyano outbreak where it was advised that, even though I travelled with the rocks in the tank water, and saved about 50 gallons of the tank water, my tank still went through a mini cycle. I scrubbed some rocks and dipped some affected corals in peroxide and did all the things I could to get rid of the algae and cyano. I started a refugium in the sump and started using a media reactor for carbon and GFO. Now, I think where I went wrong was I panicked and began over filtering. I didn't expect the "mini cycle" and it got so bad, fish, corals, and inverts were dying. So, I think I went a little over-kill. The chaeto grows like crazy. But I don't trim it, hoping to keep it from growing any more. However, I did get rid of the algae and cyano.

About a month ago, I noticed my corals were only coming out partly and their polyps look extremely skinny. Almost like, malnourished. Both SPS and LPS. Also, I started getting the sluggy, beige-colored, slimey growth throughout the tank. Not sure what it is. I did a test then and found normal levels of phosphate, but only 3ppm nitrate. So, I figured the tank was in nutrient starvation mode. I turned off the refugium light for 3 days. Turned off the skimmer during the day. And completely removed the media reactor. I did not change the feeding cycle or amount or the weekly water changes.

Now, the cyano is back with a vengance. There is still the brown sluggy stuff, and corals do not look any better. But at least they are surviving. I tested the water yesterday and the nitrates are holding steady at 3ppm. The Phosphate has lowered to 0.03. I am at a loss and close to giving up.

 

[Minifoot77]

Those nutrient numbers are good in my book have you ever done an icp ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that nutrients are not directly the issue. They are a bit below my target range, but should not be causing a coral issue at those levels.

sluggy, beige-colored, slimey growth

That sounds likely to be dinos, which are a big issue and negatively impact many corals, likely through toxins. I'd search on the many ways to deal with dinos, including manual removal, UV, elevating nutrients, dosing silicate, mechanical filtering, and blackouts (not my preference).

 

[DAWREEFER]

I have a 20-gallon nano reef and had an extremely rough year with it. My tank has been running since 2021, and I struggled mostly with algae and cyano issues. I tried just about everything to fix the problems, but nothing provided lasting results.

Eventually, I decided to do a full reset. I completely drained the tank, dipped and gently scrubbed the corals, removed and thoroughly rinsed all of the sand, added some new dry rock (mainly to create more cave systems), and then reassembled everything. The entire process took about four hours, which isn’t too bad for a 20-gallon system.

I can’t say for certain that this approach would completely eliminate dinos, but it should significantly reduce them. Starting with a much smaller population makes the problem far more manageable than trying to fight a massive outbreak.

Since doing this, my tank has been thriving, and it has taken a huge amount of stress off me personally.

 

[SOGavity]

Those nutrient numbers are good in my book have you ever done an icp ?

Yes, I have, but it was a few months ago, just as the algae and cyano was getting bad. It was high for things like Bromine and Magnesium. It was also very high for pH 8.7. Everything else said all I needed to do was extra water changes. I blamed this on dosing all-for-reef and that so called micro-cycle. I did not get the test for my RO/DI water. I haven't stopped dosing though. My Alkalinity dips quickly and so does my calcium despite slow coral growth if at all.

I agree that nutrients are not directly the issue. They are a bit below my target range, but should not be causing a coral issue at those levels.

sluggy, beige-colored, slimey growth

That sounds likely to be dinos, which are a big issue and negatively impact many corals, likely through toxins. I'd search on the many ways to deal with dinos, including manual removal, UV, elevating nutrients, dosing silicate, mechanical filtering, and blackouts (not my preference).

Yeah, I thought that's what it was. I'll get a UV light. I don't think I will need to dose silicate since it's not in my sand. My sand it the only thing not affected.

 

[exnisstech]

. I blamed this on dosing all-for-reef and that so called micro-cycle.

I'm sorry I don't understand. What exactly do you blame on AFR?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, I have, but it was a few months ago, just as the algae and cyano was getting bad. It was high for things like Bromine and Magnesium. It was also very high for pH 8.7. Everything else said all I needed to do was extra water changes. I blamed this on dosing all-for-reef and that so called micro-cycle. I did not get the test for my RO/DI water. I haven't stopped dosing though. My Alkalinity dips quickly and so does my calcium despite slow coral growth if at all.

Yeah, I thought that's what it was. I'll get a UV light. I don't think I will need to dose silicate since it's not in my sand. My sand it the only thing not affected.

The silicate is to promote diatoms on most surfaces the dinos may cling to, helping (hopefully) to displace them or use the same trace elements they use.

 

[mmorrison55]

Do you make your own RODI? If you do, I wonder if you are overdue on replacing the filters and do resin. If so, it could lead to high tds in your saltwater and could be contributing to some of your issues.

 

[SOGavity]

Do you make your own RODI? If you do, I wonder if you are overdue on replacing the filters and do resin. If so, it could lead to high tds in your saltwater and could be contributing to some of your issues.

Yes, I do. I bought new filters in November. TDS reading is still zero. Our tap water reads 21-37.

 

[SOGavity]

I'm sorry I don't understand. What exactly do you blame on AFR?

The high pH and higher micro-nutrients. While my Alkalinity and Calcium remain normal, all other nutrients were high.

 

[slingfox]

The high pH and higher micro-nutrients. While my Alkalinity and Calcium remain normal, all other nutrients were high.

What kind of rocks are in your tank? Since it’s only 1,5 years old (including a tank move during that time) it sounds like you are dealing with the typical uglies, including dinos.

How much, how often, and what do you feed? Your parameters seem fine but its is hard to get a read given that the uglies are likely eating up a significant amount of nutrients so you should well an eye on that.

 

[exnisstech]

The high pH and higher micro-nutrients. While my Alkalinity and Calcium remain normal, all other nutrients were high.

Ignorances is bliss I guess. Ive been using AFR on this tank for over 2 years. I have to run an outside airline to my skimmer to keep pH above 7.9. i keep alk between 8-9 dkH. Calcium is always 425-450 when tested. I don't test anything else except N and P. I've never done an ICP on a tank. Total volume is 65g. I do very small water changes to vacuum detritus which amounts to a total of 21g over the last 6 months. Not sure what the problems with your tank are caused by but i doubt blaming AFR is going to help any.

AFR for over 2 years. All coral grown from little frags.

 

[SOGavity]

Ignorances is bliss I guess. Ive been using AFR on this tank for over 2 years. I have to run an outside airline to my skimmer to keep pH above 7.9. i keep alk between 8-9 dkH. Calcium is always 425-450 when tested. I don't test anything else except N and P. I've never done an ICP on a tank. Total volume is 65g. I do very small water changes to vacuum detritus which amounts to a total of 21g over the last 6 months. Not sure what the problems with your tank are caused by but i doubt blaming AFR is going to help any.

AFR for over 2 years. All coral grown from little frags.

Nope, I don't think All For Reef is causing the issues in my tank. I think low Nitrates are, at least right now. I mention the high micro nutrients because clearly, my corals are not using them due to my tank being unstable. The high micro nutrients are a symptom in my opinion, not the cause. The high pH... I don't know where else it could come from other than the AFR. I don't need to run an airline tube out the window. My tap water is 7.2. I use Instant Ocean reef salt during water changes. The problem as well is if I don't dose the AFR, my Alkalinity dips quickly. It's probably the only stable parameter in my tank at 8.8dkH. And Calcium too at 420. My magnesium, according to the ICP is 1580. While not dangerous, it's obviously not being utilized. Iodine was high at 0.09. Bromine is at 77mg/L. These are just examples.

 

[SOGavity]

What kind of rocks are in your tank? Since it’s only 1,5 years old (including a tank move during that time) it sounds like you are dealing with the typical uglies, including dinos.

How much, how often, and what do you feed? Your parameters seem fine but its is hard to get a read given that the uglies are likely eating up a significant amount of nutrients so you should well an eye on that.

I started with a mix between marco rock and live rock and live sand. I make my own food because where I live, I cannot get the typical frozen foods from a pet store. The closest reef store is an 16 hour drive. In a blender I combine spirulina brine shrimp, squid, octopus, scallops, raw shrimp, clams, and oyters. Then freeze it. I feed two times a day. How much? Well, I don't measure it, but one small cube lasts 3 feedings. Not your typical icecube tray.

 

[exnisstech]

I run IO purple salt so nothing special. I would verify your pH. Many people report low pH using AFR and supplement with kalk to raise it. My pH is always low 7.6 - 7.9 in all 5 tanks unless the house is open or I have an outside line on a skimmer.
No comment on your nutrients because I don't bother worrying about micro stuff but I'm a lazy reefer. I find it too easy to get caught up chasing levels of something that may or may not even matter so I'll let the chemistry folks have their fun with that.
On a side note I do have a tank that had a lot of GHA and very low nutrients. I ended up with dinos verified with a microscope. I added a UV, reduced my photo period but not intensity and dosed my N and P up. I no longer have any sign of the dinos and the algae is almost gone. I am dosing N and P as needed. I'm trying to keep N around 5 or higher and PO4 above 0.05 and it seems to be working out. It was my first bout with dinos so my method may just be beginners luck.