Chasing color with SPS

Chessmanmark · Oct 21, 2020

Who has the best colored corals and how do we learn from the Masters?

My quick response is Jason Fox and Adam @ Battlecorals.

I recently had an opportunity to acquire the highest end SPS I ever had. The top two being a Homewrecker and a Walt Disney.

Naturally I want to grow these out and achieve optimal coloration.

They were being grown out under LED black boxes. Presently I have them under 250 w DE 14k Phoenix bulb in a Lumen Bright reflector. Unfortunately I don’t have a PAR meter, but I hope to blast them with substantial light.

Then I watched a tour of Jason Fox’s operation a second time. My instinct was to drop the pendants a little to increase the amount of light. Then I read with Lumen Brights there is adequate light, so instead of dropping the pendants raise them up to 14 inches above the surface of the water. Do the opposite. You would also think more light means a longer photo period. On JF main system he said he run halides for 4 hours, blue ReefBrites for 12 hours and T5 bulbs for 10 hours. Again, shorten the MH time period. Do the opposite.

I run my 2 LumenBright pendants for 7 hours each, but now I’m thinking to gradually shorten this length of time down to 5 hours. I supplement with a freshwater Satellite LED strip for the blue actinic, although it is inadequate. I am considering buying a Reef Brite XHO for more blue light on a longer photo period.

Any feedback on this thinking to get more color out of acros?

joseserrano · Oct 21, 2020

Coloration is not just lightning, but also dependent on water chemistry. It’s quite a subjective rabbit hole you are jumping into. I’d pick a persons tank/method and stick to it. Sounds like your still learning a lot And at this stage anyone can rationalize anything to you, but without you personally understanding, it may results in a lot of set backs and headaches. Good luck.

CCauthers · Oct 21, 2020

Also, every tank is different. What may work perfectly in Jason's system may make yours look bleh. It's all about finding balance in your tank, not someone elses, though it can be good to mimic someone at first to get things going.

jda · Oct 21, 2020

Hobbyists are going to have way better colors than both of those guys. Find some that you like. The gold-standard for me is Copps. He has a recent thread on ReefCentral if you search and find it... must read.

You are not going to want to run your tank like a vendor tank, so look at hobbyists. 2sunny has an easy and awesome tank. There are many, many more.

For me, the top 10 list of thing to make acropora look good is
0 - time for tank to mature
1 - lights
2 - lights
3 - lights
4 - lights
5 - lights
6 - lights
7 - lights
8 - competent parameters
9 - consistency and stability

It might take a few months, but you will see some differences going from black box to 14k phoenix.

Chessmanmark · Oct 21, 2020

If you’re not learning something new, then you aren’t paying attention. There is always something new to learn in this hobby.

My tank has been up for 10 years after I moved. Colors are good, but can be better. Parameters are good and stable. Growth is good.

My hypothesis is that a shorter MH photoperiod with more blue LEDs will lead to better coloration although I am still chasing growth. 7 hours of MH darkens the pigmentation of acros. It’s fine for a Red Planet but I am striving for the potential of a Homewrecker.

JF runs a lot of volume in his system. There is no comparison, however adding Reef Brite XHO with the MH sounds like a good hybrid in my mind.

Ryan at BRS is using the Reef Brite’s with Kessils in his build. I like the spread of the Lumen Brites. I am not a fan of shadowing with small puck LEDs. To avoid that he is using multiple Reef Brites. I’d like to keep my MH but enhance it going hybrid.

Bpb · Oct 21, 2020

Jason fox and Adam run their lighting fairly different. As you said, Jason Fox is a low and long photoperiod with a brief burst in the big tank. The rest of his tanks are all 100-200 par for 12 hours with heavy/only blue. Adam blasts his with 400-500 par for a more typical moderate length photoperiod, using full spectrum lower kelvin lighting. Polar opposites. Both get it done for them.

A. grandis · Oct 21, 2020

About 85% of the results for color, growth and reproduction comes from the qualities of lighting. 15% comes from other environmental aspects and water chemistry/temperature are also important. Water movement can change the whole game too. As I've been posting many times, photoperiod/ wattage/ PAR/ spectrum need to be in the right spot and fairly stable to reach the balance for some results, and it takes time. Above all, the conditions in a system will always prioritize some species and not all corals will show the exact desired results we wish for each species. Some times the less you do the more you get. One of the challenges of this hobby.

Edit: almost forgot... Keep in mind 2 things:
1) The corals you bring from other systems with different lighting than yours will most likely change color!!
2) Those online pictures are most of the time photoshoped and/or under blue diodes for it's fluorescence call.

Chessmanmark · Oct 22, 2020

Bpb said:
Jason fox and Adam run their lighting fairly different. As you said, Jason Fox is a low and long photoperiod with a brief burst in the big tank. The rest of his tanks are all 100-200 par for 12 hours with heavy/only blue. Adam blasts his with 400-500 par for a more typical moderate length photoperiod, using full spectrum lower kelvin lighting. Polar opposites. Both get it done for them.

Thank you for pointing out this comparison. From what I have read, the lower kelvin (White light) is supposed to speed up growth. When I joined the hobby back in 2003 hobbyists would grow out tanks with 10k or less, and then once the colonies achieved adequate growth many people would switch over to 20k XM bulbs for better coloration. Then T5 exploded.

My best two years of growth was when I first purchased my LumenBrights, moved the tank to the basement and added a Deltec calcium reactor. I had a few ORA acros That immediately took off and some smaller frags from Copps.

Here’s what it looked like 2 years into the rebuild just before I moved.

Chessmanmark · Oct 22, 2020

A. grandis said:
About 85% of the results for color, growth and reproduction comes from the qualities of lighting. 15% comes from other environmental aspects and water chemistry/temperature are also important. Water movement can change the whole game too. As I've been posting many times, photoperiod/ wattage/ PAR/ spectrum need to be in the right spot and fairly stable to reach the balance for some results, and it takes time. Above all, the conditions in a system will always prioritize some species and not all corals will show the exact desired results we wish for each species. Some times the less you do the more you get. One of the challenges of this hobby.

Edit: almost forgot... Keep in mind 2 things:
1) The corals you bring from other systems with different lighting than yours will most likely change color!!
2) Those online pictures are most of the time photoshoped and/or under blue diodes for it's fluorescence call.

Many of these mouth drooling insane pictures are taken with a filter these days. The naked eye just doesn’t replicate it.

But every once in a while you see a tank in person that is just killing it and the colors look great. There is a guy who lives near me, who is now out of the hobby, who won RC TOTM twice. I went to his house to pick up frags and seeing it in person was better than the articles.

CCauthers · Oct 22, 2020

Chessmanmark said:
Many of these mouth drooling insane pictures are taken with a filter these days. The naked eye just doesn’t replicate it.

But every once in a while you see a tank in person that is just killing it and the colors look great. There is a guy who lives near me, who is now out of the hobby, who won RC TOTM twice. I went to his house to pick up frags and seeing it in person was better than the articles.

I've seen several of these guys in person, and every single one of them do things differently

schuby · Oct 22, 2020

I read these two articles every once in a while. They show that diversity of equipment and routines can all produce beautiful reef tanks.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.263/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/following-the-masters-part-two.305935/

ApoIsland · Oct 22, 2020

A. grandis said:
About 85% of the results for color, growth and reproduction comes from the qualities of lighting. 15% comes from other environmental aspects and water chemistry/temperature are also important. Water movement can change the whole game too.

This is a tough one. I would put just as much importance on the water conditions as the light. Sure if all water quality is equal then the light will determine the color. The same statement is also true if the lights are the same, then its the water quality that determines color.

I have the same light (reefbreaders Photon v2 with roughly same light schedule) as another local club member. During a frag swap he was sure I had a different variety of montipora and exchanged frags. After a couple months the color of his frag in my tank started to fade to match exactly the coral I already had. Difference was solely based on flow and water quality.

A. grandis · Oct 22, 2020

ApoIsland said:
This is a tough one. I would put just as much importance on the water conditions as the light. Sure if all water quality is equal then the light will determine the color. The same statement is also true if the lights are the same, then its the water quality that determines color.

I have the same light (reefbreaders Photon v2 with roughly same light schedule) as another local club member. During a frag swap he was sure I had a different variety of montipora and exchanged frags. After a couple months the color of his frag in my tank started to fade to match exactly the coral I already had. Difference was solely based on flow and water quality.

There are some that will say they strongly believe water motion is the most important, then comes lighting. Those people are using LEDs.
When comparing different technologies (MH/T5/LED) that changes.
No one knows why halides provide such amazing results, but some of us believe those benefits come from the UV and IR.

bubbaque · Oct 22, 2020

Color comes down to water chemistry.

You can have any lighting you want but if your water chemistry is off you will have brown corals. Have great water chemistry and use even led black boxes and you will get good color.

A. grandis · Oct 22, 2020

schuby said:
I read these two articles every once in a while. They show that diversity of equipment and routines can all produce beautiful reef tanks.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.263/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/following-the-masters-part-two.305935/

Great example is what Dr. sanjay's tank used to look like under his 400W halides comparing to the somehow dull picture that today it represents under those G4s. Some of the corals lost their strong pigmentation like that bright yellow Porites on the left side. The results are just different. Still a beautiful tank. He's using more wattage today then when he had halides.

A. grandis · Oct 22, 2020

bubbaque said:
Color comes down to water chemistry.

You can have any lighting you want but if your water chemistry is off you will have brown corals. Have great water chemistry and use even led black boxes and you will get good color.

Get same water chemistry qualities and compare the types of light. Results will be different. That's the point. Get halides and LEDs with good water chemistry. Choose the results you like and that's it.

Bpb · Oct 22, 2020

In my lighting carousel I’ve played, results have been erratic.

I enjoyed very acceptable growth and color under T5’s to start my hobby experience.

Gave a couple years shot to radiums on m80’s and then a year under xm10k’s. Difference in appearance was significant. Overall growth and health was decent. Tank was fairly young at the time.

Tried out black boxes at the 3 year mark and did it wrong. Mounted them too close. Manually changed spectrum and intensity drastically from week to week to suit my mood. Ended up killing almost everything in the tank by doing that. Nearly quit the hobby.

Back to T5’s. Over several years Tank improved and grew sps again. Fixture was old. Acrylic shield was hazy, reflectors badly tarnished. Acros had great color and acceptable growth.

Changed to Hamilton metal halides. Got a good deal on them. Gave a year to 14k’s and almost a year to 20k’s. Sharp uptick in alk consumption when going from T5’s to mh, Not much change beyond aesthetic when changing from 14 to 20k.

Switched back to leds and used a par meter and the set and forget method. Alkalinity consumption remained the same as under metal halides. Growth and healing time have been identical. Colors identical. If there is a difference in coral health it is so subtle and insignificant I honestly don’t care.

No significant parameter changes have coincided with these lighting changes. I run between 6-8 dkh for years and years. Use a calcium reactor. Do regular water changes with instant ocean. Run between 0-0.1 ppm po4. Don’t test nitrate. I respect research and theory. It interests me. But at the end of the day, I run my tank based on what I have experienced and I believe what I see in person over what I read.

I still think there’s a valuable place in each unique scenario for each available light tech. Just needs to be applied correctly.

A. grandis · Oct 22, 2020

My experiences coming from T5s to halides showed powerful changes in color/growth. The only lights that would provide 100% of pigmentation like when they are found in the ocean were under halide/T5 bulbs. The difference was really noticeable after couple of weeks, to the point we could know exactly where we collected those different types of "reds" and "purples" from. Yellow ones are big time yellow now, absolutely no way to keep that yeallow under LEDs or eve T5s alone! Halides are the only lights that could give the yellow found in the ocean, period! We kinda knew about the green ones because we placed them in different spots of the tank and they are slow growers under T5s, not under halides though. But after halides came on they also showed their differences. It's just amazing how the corals can keep their pigments "dormant" for so many years after collected.
Like I've said, the preferences of each person will count and everyone will choose the results they like the most in that regard.
In my observations, through all the years, there is no LED tank in person that will convince me they are better than halides or t5s for what I'm looking for. That is my persona taste (?). All my friends are puzzled why my tank has no visible algae and "so much light" and the zoas look "so natural". In reality the whole tank looks natural. If I give some extra food then some algae shows on the glass. Under T5s the zoas would grow all over the tank and fill up all the rocks. Under halides now, they are starting to look more natural too. It's just like under the sun in the ocean. What is a healthy system? Are they healthy in the ocean when they look really good? I care about that.

Chessmanmark · Oct 22, 2020

I have an early Reef Breeders LED black box over my nano. It will grow coral and I like the instant ability to change spectrum, but I can’t part with my MH lighting either on my 90.

After watching the BRS video on ReefBrite I think LEDs can replace T5 for actinic lighting.

I think if you have a PAR meter you can grow anything even with cheap lights. Find the right PAR and your good to go.