Chloroquine phosphate

[omykiss001]

Don't know if I am allowed to post company names on here but the website I found, looks like his CP is manufactured by a company called Toku-e. It is a Japanese company that has moved to the states and to Belgium. They do state that all their meds are for in vitro research only and not for human or animal consumption. Not sure if using this in a Qt tank is violating those rules but the company looks legit. Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can check it out and see if there is a problem with using this in QT.

Do they have an MSDS or a certificate of analysis. I would be more concerned about any impurities and or the purity they provide it at so you could dose it correctly and account for anything less than 99% purity.

 

[raultsu]

how long will it take carbon to remove CP from the water?

 

[Reef Fever]

@Reef Fever you said your testing the cp levels in your qt, how do you do this?

Thanks

Testing it on a Hach DR5000, a recently discontinued, but once very expensive spectrophotometer. I work at a public aquarium, we use it for daily water quality monitoring

how long will it take carbon to remove CP from the water?

I can tell you tomorrow evening. I just added carbon to 5 750 gallon, and 3 240 gallon systems earlier this afternoon. I will be testing the levels in the AM

 

[jaws789832]

Do they have an MSDS or a certificate of analysis. I would be more concerned about any impurities and or the purity they provide it at so you could dose it correctly and account for anything less than 99% purity.

yeah they do but its written in scientist language lol. Instead of purity I believe its an assay which I am not sure what the difference is. The assay is 98.9%-103% whatever that means.

 

[Humblefish]

You have to email them for the MSDS: http://www.toku-e.com/Chloroquine-phosphate-P705.aspx

Which I already have. But I'm thinking the "Not suitable for human or animal consumption" part is already gonna be a deal breaker.

 

[Reef Fever]

Okay so just tested CP on the 750's.

Carbon was added at about 11:30 am yesterday. Testing was done at about 7:30 am this morning.

I will list the starting level:level after carbon for the 5 750 gallon systems

Q2-12.1ppm:0.27ppm
Q3-11.3ppm:0.07ppm
Q4-15.2ppm:0.20ppm
Q5-12.7ppm:0.27ppm
Q6-10.6ppm:0.07ppm

This was Under 24 hours. So that's how fast it can be removed essentially. Carbon was in a large canister on these systems, not in media bags.

 

[Humblefish]

@Reef Fever Would like to get your input regarding two publications graciously provided to us by @omykiss001.

In table 2, it shows that it takes a full 60 mins to achieve a 96.6% kill rate of Cryptocaryon irritans theronts when using CP @10mg/L: https://www.researchgate.net/public...arine_fish_in_THAILAND_and_in_vitro_treatment

The table also shows that formalin & copper were both 100% effective against theronts within the first 5 minutes.

Table 2 from this publication shows a 87.42% theront mortality after 90 mins of CP exposure @10mg/L; 96.61% theront mortality after 90 mins of CP exposure @40mg/L: https://www.researchgate.net/public...f_the_ciliate_protozoan_Cryptocaryon_irritans

The data from both studies suggests it is unlikely CP eradicates all the theronts in one pass, and that a small percentage could make their way onto a fish before being eradicated. Thoughts?

 

[Humblefish]

Just to add to the thread, this information was graciously provided to us by @robert: http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/a_lawler_111697.html

I use Marex, chloroquine phosphate + pyrimethamine (=daraprim), from Aquatronics to dislodge/kill the trophonts on fish prior to display. Treatment is done in all-glass tanks with sponge filters. My treatment technique allows me to put healthy fish on display in 1 day…..rather than after a long treatment with copper or quarantine. There have been very few failures using this technique since l984.

Adrian Lawler is referring to Amyloodinium ocellatum (aka velvet) in the quote above, but if this is true that's pretty awesome that CP can be used in combination with two other chemicals to kill velvet on the fish.

 

[omykiss001]

yeah they do but its written in scientist language lol. Instead of purity I believe its an assay which I am not sure what the difference is. The assay is 98.9%-103% whatever that means.

Can you post this or the link to it. I'd be happy to take a look and read it over. I look at these all the time at work I can probably make some sense for you

You have to email them for the MSDS: http://www.toku-e.com/Chloroquine-phosphate-P705.aspx

Which I already have. But I'm thinking the "Not suitable for human or animal consumption" part is already gonna be a deal breaker.

This is generally a CYA from the company that would state if it killed you or the animal they are not liable as it's branded for in vitro work not in vivo (means they can produce it without the regulatory paperwork and hoops of the FDA or country specific regulatory agencies as it is not intended to be used as a prescribed drug. Generally just means a Dr. or Vet can't prescribe this a patent. Chemicals like this are used all the time for experiments are are often using in organisms. However, if you can get them to provide it to you there may be some risk that the stated impurities could harm your animals.

Just to add to the thread, this information was graciously provided to us by @robert: http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/a_lawler_111697.html


Adrian Lawler is referring to Amyloodinium ocellatum (aka velvet) in the quote above, but if this is true that's pretty awesome that CP can be used in combination with two other chemicals to kill velvet on the fish.

If you could work in using Pyrimethamine with CP that would be a double punch and probably improve the kill rate and time. Don't know if Pyrimethamine is more or less toxic than CP. Both CP and Pyrimethamine are commonly used anti-malarial drugs and both are used to treat protozoan infections. Marex is an expectorant and is the same chemical used in Musinex (Guaifenesin) available over the counter. Most likely used to thin and remove excess mucus production around the gills and or body of the animal. Used in this cocktail perhaps to allow the other drugs access to the parasite or just provide relief to the animal from the infection.

 

[Emisis]

I can honestly say to @Humblefish @omykiss001 and @Reef Fever that I am glad you folks can decipher this information in these links. I tried, attempted.......looked at.....ur ummm breezed over.......scanned......OK OK OK looked at a bunch of words put together in scientific format and came away with well....no understanding, well not much anyway. So, pretty much Thank You for converting this in to something I can understand and use for my QT procedures.

Edit:
I WAS one of those no QT people...........I AM one of those PRIOR no QT people that lost all but 3 of my fish to Ich. The ones I lost I had for 4+ years.........I now have an empty DT for the fallow period and the 3 survivors in QT with CP. I am now a QT supporter.

 

[svogun]

@Humblefish can you use regular ammonia test kits with cp or do you jave to rely on the ammonia badge?

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish can you use regular ammonia test kits with cp or do you jave to rely on the ammonia badge?

You have to rely on the ammonia badge. The presence of CP causes false positives when using most ammonia test kits.

 

[Chknsamich]

anyone having adverse effect using CP with purple tangs? I tried both CP on a yellow tang and blue hippo. both hid not long after, stop eating and then succumb. Just like with some fairy wrasse and CP.

 

[Humblefish]

anyone having adverse effect using CP with purple tangs? I tried both CP on a yellow tang and blue hippo. both hid not long after, stop eating and then succumb. Just like with some fairy wrasse and CP.

I've yet to get a Hippo Tang thru CP. They just wither away and die in it, like Sixline & Mel wrasses do.

But I've put multiple Purples, YTs and flasher/fairy wrasses thru it without any problems.

 

[mfinn]

Day 3 with CP and a tiny Desjardini tang.
First day the tang seemed normal. 2nd day it seemed to hide a lot. 3rd day it's out and about and looking around being curious and eating good.

 

[Reef Fever]

Sorry for my absence, been preoccupied with stuff at work!

I found that article very interesting. Not entirely sure what to make of it though.

I am on a listserver of aquarists around the world and recently CP had been brought up and I believe it was Charles delbeek who mentioned he does a 21 day treatment rather than a 30 day. I am about to put a tank of very sensitive fish through. I myself am contemplating a 21 day vs the traditional 30. After completion (hopefully they all make it) they will more than likely get one more 24hr prazi soak followed by a one hour formalin bath.

Starting with:

2 multibar angels
2 lyretail anthias
2 borbonius anthias
1 scribbled rabbit
10 firefish
2 talbots damsels
1 springeri damsel

 

[drstratton]

I just spoke with my Vet, he had a SW tank at one time, so understands the need to have medication on hand. I showed him this thread and he is going to talk to his pharmacist who does compound medications for him. If they can get it, he will have it done in 40mg capsules for me. It will be so nice to have it on hand and pre-measured in case I ever need it. Thank you so much for such a well written explanation on the use of CP.

 

[Reef Fever]

Sorry for my absence, been preoccupied with stuff at work!

I found that article very interesting. Not entirely sure what to make of it though.

I am on a listserver of aquarists around the world and recently CP had been brought up and I believe it was Charles delbeek who mentioned he does a 21 day treatment rather than a 30 day. I am about to put a tank of very sensitive fish through. I myself am contemplating a 21 day vs the traditional 30. After completion (hopefully they all make it) they will more than likely get one more 24hr prazi soak followed by a one hour formalin bath.

Starting with:

2 multibar angels
2 lyretail anthias
2 borbonius anthias
1 scribbled rabbit
10 firefish
2 talbots damsels
1 springeri damsel

UPDATE:

Decided to do a 21 day treatment, all fish are still doing well.

 

[Humblefish]

Keep the good info coming @Reef Fever.

 

[RMAS0934]

@Humblefish may I ask your opinion on Metronidazole for ich? I have read a little on this for the treatment of bacterial disease, but I have also seen articles for its use on protozoans like Cryptocaryon (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Metronidazole.html). I'm curious about this as I have tried locally for CP, but the vet said he can't prescribe anything without seeing the animal first. Which was a little frustrating considering I would be using this as a preventative or treatment for the qt of new fish (smooth fish), not currently ill fish. Buying in bulk is not feasible at the moment, so obviously Metronidazole or even Kanamycin appealed to me (I believe Dr. Gregory had mentioned in his recent video that he had seen Kanaplex used).