Choosing among the Kessil lights for an Acro dominant setup

[flyfisher2]

I'm looking for advice on a Kessil light choice. The tank is 60 X 24 X 24. It will be an Acropora dominant set up. I've spoken to hobbyist and read numerous threads recommending the Kessil A360's, the ap 700's, or the AP9X for mixed reefs and or combined in a hybrid set up with T5's, LED strips like the Orphek Blue strips or ReefBrights when going for the extra coverage needed in Acro dominant reefs. I'd rather not have to supplement with a secondary light source.
Would the a500 be adequate for this type setup without the need for supplemental lighting in a tank this size if sufficient height were obtained ?
I'd love to hear from people who are actually using the lights and can share their experience with these lights. Thanks in advance reefers!

 

[flyfisher2]

You can absolutely use 360x’s or 500x’s alone, but you’re going to need more than what you think. I love these lights, but by design, they have a con, shading. But, this shouldn’t keep you from using them, but make sure you plan accordingly. They will grow and color sps perfectly fine. My experience is to use one light for every 12” to 16” square of sps coverage. The best way to mount them is at slight angles towards each other. I have a 36x36x16 tank and I was running six 360x’s over it, plus three Orphek OR2’s. All point source lighting has this crutch, but so does nature. Unless you’re running led panels, you’ll need more than the manufacturer recommends for sps, this is for all LEDs.

thanks for sharing the pics.
Based on your recommendations I'd need 6 to 8 360's for my tank?
Tank looks good.

 

[flyfisher2]

i kmow you just want kessil but the way i would do it is with 3 kessil a360x and 2 reefbrite 250w mh hybrids . i would go i kessil on each end one middle and the mh one the sides of the middle . i have a 4' tank with 2 kessils on each and and a reefbrite mh hybrid in the middle and love it

metal halides and you're using the kessils for shimmer,
Can't see you needing them for anything more than that?

i kmow you just want kessil but the way i would do it is with 3 kessil a360x and 2 reefbrite 250w mh hybrids . i would go i kessil on each end one middle and the mh one the sides of the middle . i have a 4' tank with 2 kessils on each and and a reefbrite mh hybrid in the middle and love it

Sounds awesome and I remember the metal halides of old in the 90's. Awesome tanks. Seems like vinyl records, making a comeback.

 

[flyfisher2]

I’d say go for it if doing LPS - the polyps sway and can catch the spotlights. Since you said sps you’ll probably have issues with the corals shadowing themselves if you don’t supplement with T5s or similar.
I visited an LFS once that had Kessils over an epic SPS tank. When l asked the owner how, he opened the canopy and turns out had the kessils on motorized tracks that moved around the tank to get around the shadowing issue.

You can’t beat the look of Kessils in my opinion. It seems like a lot if them don’t make it past 2-3 years though (based on reviews), and the shadowing issue.

I love the look. The contrast and actually the shadows. Maybe it's just me. I think the effect adds another dimension to the tank.

 

[flyfisher2]

Wow, no matter what it just seems that acro is hybrid or bust with these lights. Don't you finfd that the supplemetal light kill the primary light (Kessil) effect?

 

[C_AWOL]

I would recommend multiple 360x (4) or multiple ap9x (2) for your tank layout.

The ap9x will be cheaper and less unsightly than the 360x due to having less cables and having wifi built in but may suffer from less flexibility in spacing (likely a non issue in a 5' tank)

The main issue with growing sps coral with kessils is shadowing vs actual par in my experience which can be remedied with more fixtures/supplementary lighting.

The 500x series is realistically only helpful in 30+" tanks and solves none of the shadowing issues that kessil has with its spot light design

Frankly if kessil finally updated its 160 to a 160x version or made a panel with more than 2 led chips (could probably be less powerful chips) I think that could better solve shadowing issues for people but who knows what they will plan for the future.

I do know light look wise I prefer my kessils over my g4 pros (have not owned the g5s ) but the most important thing is to not rush with any lighting purchase and consider looking at what youre considering in person along with playing with the control options as well (radions are nice lights but I absolutely hate mobius for example)

 

[flyfisher2]

I would recommend multiple 360x (4) or multiple ap9x (2) for your tank layout.

The ap9x will be cheaper and less unsightly than the 360x due to having less cables and having wifi built in but may suffer from less flexibility in spacing (likely a non issue in a 5' tank)

The main issue with growing sps coral with kessils is shadowing vs actual par in my experience which can be remedied with more fixtures/supplementary lighting.

The 500x series is realistically only helpful in 30+" tanks and solves none of the shadowing issues that kessil has with its spot light design

Frankly if kessil finally updated its 160 to a 160x version or made a panel with more than 2 led chips (could probably be less powerful chips) I think that could better solve shadowing issues for people but who knows what they will plan for the future.

I do know light look wise I prefer my kessils over my g4 pros (have not owned the g5s ) but the most important thing is to not rush with any lighting purchase and consider looking at what youre considering in person along with playing with the control options as well (radions are nice lights but I absolutely hate mobius for example)

Thanks for your input. I agree with you, really doing my homework on this and want to get it right. I was really hopeing I'd get away from the mutiple light fixtures but from what I'm hearing it seems inevitable.

 

[minus9]

Wow, no matter what it just seems that acro is hybrid or bust with these lights. Don't you finfd that the supplemetal light kill the primary light (Kessil) effect?

No, the Orpheks add pop and they also allow me to run them a little on the whiter spectrum, which really brings out the true blues in acropora. Having said this, I’m actually switching back to metal halides with Kessil’s as Dawn/Dusk. Like I said, I love these lights, but with acropora dominated tanks, the amount of electricity used over the course of 12hrs is actually more than what I’ll use with two 250w halides.

 

[flyfisher2]

No, the Orpheks add pop and they also allow me to run them a little on the whiter spectrum, which really brings out the true blues in acropora. Having said this, I’m actually switching back to metal halides with Kessil’s as Dawn/Dusk. Like I said, I love these lights, but with acropora dominated tanks, the amount of electricity used over the course of 12hrs is actually more than what I’ll use with two 250w halides.

Didn't even think at that level. 180W X 6 at full intensity translates to 1080 Watts. vs the halides at about 285 Watts per? What about the heat being generated?

 

[minus9]

Didn't even think at that level. 180W X 6 at full intensity translates to 1080 Watts. vs the halides at about 285 Watts per? What about the heat being generated?

Each 360x is 90w max, plus the Orphek are 35w or something close. I figured I was using close to 645w for 8hrs, then slightly less for 4hrs. While I’ll only need to run the halides for 6hrs max a day.

 

[flyfisher2]

Each 360x is 90w max, plus the Orphek are 35w or something close. I figured I was using close to 645w for 8hrs, then slightly less for 4hrs. While I’ll only need to run the halides for 6hrs max a day.

Sorry, calculated based on the a500's. Still makes sense if the running time is less and the overall effect is more beneficial to the corals.

 

[DanTheReefer]

Wow, no matter what it just seems that acro is hybrid or bust with these lights. Don't you finfd that the supplemetal light kill the primary light (Kessil) effect?

Yeah they do. I still like T5s. I have those and a few 3W led diodes to enjoy the tank with some deep blues and shimmer when the T5s turn off

 

[vetteguy53081]

Although youre seeking Kessil specific recpmmendation, I would recommend three Orphek OR3-150 (sky blue and blue plus combo) Or 2 AP-700 and two Orphek 0R3 bars

 

[flyfisher2]

Yeah they do. I still like T5s. I have those and a few 3W led diodes to enjoy the tank with some deep blues and shimmer when the T5s turn

I've contemplated that option as well.

 

[flyfisher2]

Although youre seeking Kessil specific recpmmendation, I would recommend three Orphek OR3-150 (sky blue and blue plus combo) Or 2 AP-700 and two Orphek 0R3 bars

That was my original plan, the 2 AP700's and the orphek blue bars, But got it in my head that the a500's would work. I'm understanding that it's not an issue of how much light breaks through but more of where it can reach. I just saw two flood lights lighting up the entire tank and didn't take into consideration that the SPS would shelf and need all the additional fill light.
I hope Kessil is working on this because as it stands it seems that success with their lights is based on other brands stepping up to fill in the gaps (No pun intended). They handle their design like" if it ain't broke don't fix it"
It needs help.
Fix it!

 

[C_AWOL]

That was my original plan, the 2 AP700's and the orphek blue bars, But got it in my head that the a500's would work. I'm understanding that it's not an issue of how much light breaks through but more of where it can reach. I just saw two flood lights lighting up the entire tank and didn't take into consideration that the SPS would shelf and need all the additional fill light.
I hope Kessil is working on this because as it stands it seems that success with their lights is based on other brands stepping up to fill in the gaps (No pun intended). They handle their design like" if it ain't broke don't fix it"
It needs help.
Fix it!

I don't think the savings from buying the ap700 over the newer ap9x is worth it when considering superior controls via a newer app or iota apex control. Plus its probably going to be harder to resell if you do end up regretting your purchase

 

[Amado]

At this point if are not growing sps it’s not your lights. It’s you. You can grow all corals even sps with Kessil lights. You can grow sps with $100 Amazon chines black boxes. You have plenty of tanks that have grown sps with $100 Amazon t5. So it’s not the lights fault if your tank fails. I would worry too much about shadowing sps frags take years to grow. Once they do you can add more lights at that time.

 

[DanTheReefer]

I don't think the savings from buying the ap700 over the newer ap9x is worth it when considering superior controls via a newer app or iota apex control. Plus its probably going to be harder to resell if you do end up regretting your purchase

Yeah especially if you get this BRS open box deal…

AP9X LED Lighting Panel (OPEN BOX)

From redesigned LED chips and optics to updated, more versatile software and built-in Wifi connectivity, the AP9X represents the combination of Kessil's best features, in a lighting package perfectly suited to a variety of mixed reef systems. The Kessil AP9X is the culmination of all of the...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[minus9]

I don't think the savings from buying the ap700 over the newer ap9x is worth it when considering superior controls via a newer app or iota apex control. Plus its probably going to be harder to resell if you do end up regretting your purchase

Agreed, stay away from the 700's. Great lights, crappy software. Kessil's are great, but you have to know what you're getting. They provide awesome spectrum and amazing contrast, but that comes at a cost. I myself would love to see them do a panel style light with multiple 20w pucks spread out over an array that is slightly curved that would be angled in a bit. Or at least be flexible to adjust each array.

 

[DanTheReefer]

Agreed, stay away from the 700's. Great lights, crappy software. Kessil's are great, but you have to know what you're getting. They provide awesome spectrum and amazing contrast, but that comes at a cost. I myself would love to see them do a panel style light with multiple 20w pucks spread out over an array that is slightly curved that would be angled in a bit. Or at least be flexible to adjust each array.

This. I want to see that too

 

[flyfisher2]

At this point if are not growing sps it’s not your lights. It’s you. You can grow all corals even sps with Kessil lights. You can grow sps with $100 Amazon chines black boxes. You have plenty of tanks that have grown sps with $100 Amazon t5. So it’s not the lights fault if your tank fails. I would worry too much about shadowing sps frags take years to grow. Once they do you can add more lights at that time.

Years to grow?
Must be those chinese lights you're referring to
LOL
All kidding aside, I've used SB reeflight boxes
They did the job. I wouldn't put them in the same category as the Radions , Kessils, T5's or metal halides.