Chop shops bad for the hobby?

[LovinlifeinGuam]

I hate this argument in business and America. It excuses bad practice preying on ignorance with some shrug of well nobody is forcing you to make bad choices .... And that's not even entirely true. It's even applauded at times. It's never good or right though.

Ok, you should petition against people's right to make their own choices in that case. If that's really how you feel, it's the only solution. Maybe in an authoritarian state they would shut down these evil companies while reviewing each businesses practices to ensure the government approves (by whatever standards they decide upon).

 

[BeanAnimal]

Legitimate coral farms…

I am not sure what that means. Please see my posts above for context.

 

[BeanAnimal]

There is no misconception, WWC has their mother colonies in view. Most other places with hundreds of frags for sale with a single display tank is obviously not growing corals. It’s easy to tell the difference….

Again, context is everything. They can’t grow and frag generational “mother colonies” fast enough to supply the demand of the hobby. The vast majority of SPS coral sold in this hobby is first-generation wild collected and fragged, no matter how long it grows out on a frag plug.

The business model is not one of ethics, it is one of demand and cost. If the predominant or only suppliers were generation colony growers/farmers, coral supply would be low and prices astronomical.

Reality is what it is.

 

[Featherweight]

Ok, you should petition against people's right to make their own choices in that case. If that's really how you feel, it's the only solution. Maybe in an authoritarian state they would shut down these evil companies while reviewing each businesses practices to ensure the government approves (by whatever standards they decide upon).

We already have regulations... They function to do exactly what you say. But I dislike the argument regardless.

 

[Featherweight]

Ok, you should petition against people's right to make their own choices in that case. If that's really how you feel, it's the only solution. Maybe in an authoritarian state they would shut down these evil companies while reviewing each businesses practices to ensure the government approves (by whatever standards they decide upon).

It's almost like the op thought an educational post might help overcome people with this mindset.

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

It's almost like the op thought an educational post might help overcome people with your mindset.

My mindset is realistic and promotes capitalism. I doubt that's what OP was hoping to suppress. Even if it was, I stand by a capitalistic society that allows consumers to choose what they buy, provided the product is legal.

Do you disagree with that?

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

I don't think there is anything wrong with fragging any coral and selling it
I think it comes down to ensuring the coral is healthy and able to recover before selling. This comes down to the seller. As only the seller can determine when something is ready to be sold. At the same time. It is up to the buyer to investigate the frags they are purchasing. As others said asking questions. It is up to the buyer at that point to risk the purchase.

Unfortunately this industry has become more of card collecting but where cards can be fragged and sold for around same or sometimes higher price. Just like buying a pack, you don't know what you are going to get as far as quality. Once the bag, pack is open, it is all on the buyer now. Some sellers do have good policies on issues.

I don't think there is I just recently bought a coral that was dragged on the spot for me. It is doing great this past week. But I know the facility and watched the process and know the condition. At that point it is a risk all on me. If a seller is up front on this. I believe the fault should go to the buyer if it was all done honestly and correctly with buyer knowledge. This is where chop shop term can come in place where a coral does not have a chance to be looked at or checked over, immediately fragged and sold even if coral already showed signs of issues prior. Then still selling with some sort of TN.

 

[Featherweight]

My mindset is realistic and promotes capitalism. I doubt that's what OP was hoping to suppress. Even if it was, I stand by a capitalistic society that allows consumers to choose what they buy, provided the product is legal.

Do you disagree with that?

Yes I do, especially when you present your idea w no nuance and so aggressively. I can tell you are also looking for a fight. Your mindset is conventional and familiar. It differs from mine.

 

[CHSUB]

Again, context is everything. They can’t grow and frag generational “mother colonies” fast enough to supply the demand of the hobby. The vast majority of SPS coral sold in this hobby is first-generation wild collected and fragged, no matter how long it grows out on a frag plug.

The business model is not one of ethics, it is one of demand and cost. If the predominant or only suppliers were generation colony growers/farmers, coral supply would be low and prices astronomical.

Reality is what it is.

Guessing you have never been to WWC. I’m not speaking about the hobby as a whole, only about WWC. They are not chopping mariculture SPS, many of the mother’s colonies are more than a decade old. I’m not an advocate for them, can only tell you what I see.

 

[X-37B]

2 of the 3 decent shops in my area have quite a few wild colonies. They take a colony that they sell for 100-200. 200's are from Australia. These have been cut right off the reef as it's obvious, no plug.
They take some colonies and make some nice looking frags. Those go for 60.
All they have to do is sell 1 frag and it pays for the colony. It's just business and has been this way forever, imo.

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

Yes I do, especially when you present your idea w no nuance and so aggressively. I can tell you are also looking for a fight. Your mindset is conventional and familiar. It differs from mine.

I agree that we differ in probably many aspects. I did present my opinion aggressively and although others may not have been quite as straightforward, most seem to agree.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Guessing you have never been to WWC. I’m not speaking about the hobby as a whole, only about WWC.

This thread and my comments and context are about the hobby as a whole.

 

[PJfish]

some more pics of my farm pieces

Not for sale yet ........ 6 months out on these

Beautiful work wow so in six months looks like you would be selling mini colonies and not traditional frag size but guess size is all subjective ha!! Do you have batches corals for sale in rotation available weekly? And for the sake of this thread can or does your business support 100% of your family needs? Or is this more of a hobby with benefits? Your mother colonies must be amazing and very productive!
Thanks for sharing!!

 

[14 foot reef]

Beautiful work wow so in six months looks like you would be selling mini colonies and not traditional frag size but guess size is all subjective ha!! Do you have batches corals for sale in rotation available weekly? And for the sake of this thread can or does your business support 100% of your family needs? Or is this more of a hobby with benefits? Your mother colonies must be amazing and very productive!
Thanks for sharing!!

I have over 300 frags for sale
No this new farm is the start to my retirement gig. It does NOT support my family....YET !!!!
My mother colonies are quite productive, My main display is 14' long

 

[PJfish]

I have over 300 frags for sale
No this new farm is the start to my retirement gig. It does NOT support my family....YET !!!!
My mother colonies are quite productive, My main display is 14' long

Awesomeness!! Couldn’t think of a better retirement gig other than living on a reef!
Happy farming!!

 

[ToxicPaly]

I buy wholesale. Lemme say that first. This is what I do.
They stay in tank minimum 9months. Preferably a year.
Whether I cut them up or keep them whole. Minimum 9 months.
And it absolutely does not cost zero keeping them around. If you’re in it for profits this isn’t the business for you. That’s my opinion.

If you’re not in for profits it’s not a business it’s a hobby

 

[Featherweight]

If you’re not in for profits it’s not a business it’s a hobby

There are non profit organizations who conduct business...

 

[RobertK]

I’m not trying to bash anyone really I just want to spread awareness.

So how is a conscientious reef aquarist who is willing to pay more to avoid these "chop shops" supposed to know where to buy their frags? I buy almost everything online and only buy WYSIWYG frags that appear healed and healthy, but as mentioned many of those are probably first generation cuttings from wild collected specimens.

I agree that we should not bash anyone, but a list of trusted vendors would be helpful. That might not do much to change the hobby as a whole, but it would be helpful to those of us who come here for advice and who are trying to enjoy the hobby without contributing to negative impacts on the world's coral reefs.

 

[14 foot reef]

This piece is sooooooo Chunky !!!!!

 

[14 foot reef]

This Vadalia sps Tri-Color - Tiny piece for sale. Just imagine the mother colony...HaHa