Chop shops bad for the hobby?

[TangerineSpeedo]

some more pics of my farm pieces
Not for sale yet ........ 6 months out on these

See I caught you in a lie...
That's 2 weeks growth of teal birds nest...
If you waited 6 months they would be the size of basketballs each...
JK

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

There are non profit organizations who conduct business...

You do realize that many employees of so-called non profit organizations make ridiculously high profits, right? Non profit might not mean what you think it does...

 

[TX_REEF]

Great point with the plug swap.
On the other hand when a vendor shows pics and they are highly saturated or bait and switched, you can't blame the buyer. As the picture should be what you get unless stated. It is a matter of trust. It's a risk to both parties if all involved are honest. As mishandling can happen on the buyer or misunderstanding, even scams but same goes for seller.

Oh, no doubt with the bait and switch. The only thing I can suggest there is to try to resolve it with the vendor, then contact the payment processor if it doesn’t get resolved. Luckily there are some vendors that post accurate photos, but they tend to be the more expensive ones. So I understand the desire to shop around, and risk it on an unknown seller. But yeah, the sellers shouldn’t be misrepresenting the coral in photos.

This is so important. Whenever I sell anything, I do not modify photos, period. The only filter is an orange lens so everything isn’t a blue fest. Even the “better” big vendors, like WWC and Tidal Gardens, have in-house photo editing professionals. To what extent they edit varies, but it is almost always a factor nonetheless (and it DOES help sell corals online, sadly)

 

[TX_REEF]

I don't think there is anything wrong with fragging any coral and selling it
I think it comes down to ensuring the coral is healthy and able to recover before selling. This comes down to the seller. As only the seller can determine when something is ready to be sold. At the same time. It is up to the buyer to investigate the frags they are purchasing. As others said asking questions. It is up to the buyer at that point to risk the purchase.

Unfortunately this industry has become more of card collecting but where cards can be fragged and sold for around same or sometimes higher price. Just like buying a pack, you don't know what you are going to get as far as quality. Once the bag, pack is open, it is all on the buyer now. Some sellers do have good policies on issues.

I don't think there is I just recently bought a coral that was dragged on the spot for me. It is doing great this past week. But I know the facility and watched the process and know the condition. At that point it is a risk all on me. If a seller is up front on this. I believe the fault should go to the buyer if it was all done honestly and correctly with buyer knowledge. This is where chop shop term can come in place where a coral does not have a chance to be looked at or checked over, immediately fragged and sold even if coral already showed signs of issues prior. Then still selling with some sort of TN.

Getting yugioh and Pokémon flashbacks with this, true! A pack might contain a lucky card, but you never know. The lucky card (frag) alone will frequently cost more than a whole pack that may or may not contain the card you’re looking for

 

[14 foot reef]

See I caught you in a lie...
That's 2 weeks growth of teal birds nest...
If you waited 6 months they would be the size of basketballs each...
JK

I'm not the best at text humor. Did I actually lie ? I wont sell the new frags for 6 months, no matter what the growth. Not mad, just not the best on reading jokes between the lines.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I'm not the best at text humor. Did I actually lie ? I wont sell the new frags for 6 months, no matter what the growth. Not mad, just not the best on reading jokes between the lines.

No, Sorry. I was just trying to point out the time-space continuum of teal birds nest.... in a sarcastic way.

 

[KrisReef]

This is one of my pet peeves. My wife and I got to a lot of shows. I see so much stuff for sale thay is obviously a fresh frag glued to a bone white frag plug. Like would it kill you to let a frag healthy first?

Just to make a contrary point about white fragility* plugs , ( or fresh clean black plugs- we are colorblind as Dr. MLKing suggested would improve any civil s)…

Some had working coral growers and sellers will “chop” fresh

*frags
( my apologies for the earlier auto correct error)

….So that clean sticks are for sale on plugs that are new, untanked, and squeaky clean so that folks buying them at a show can put the clean frag and plug directly into their home system without worrying about hitchhiking pests that are common on plugs that have been in a coral system.

Sure, the best vendors will not have pests in their systems so dirty plugs with encrusting frags are not a problem.

But the best vendors would not put a dirty frag plug in their own systems, they pop the frag off the plug, dip it and glue it onto a new plug before they let it near their qt tank(s).

A clean plug can be the sign of a pro-active “Safe-Reefing” vendor.

Some will dip the frags at the point of sale before they send them home, safety first!

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

I’m not trying to bash anyone really I just want to spread awareness.

So how is a conscientious reef aquarist who is willing to pay more to avoid these "chop shops" supposed to know where to buy their frags? I buy almost everything online and only buy WYSIWYG frags that appear healed and healthy, but as mentioned many of those are probably first generation cuttings from wild collected specimens.

I agree that we should not bash anyone, but a list of trusted vendors would be helpful. That might not do much to change the hobby as a whole, but it would be helpful to those of us who come here for advice and who are trying to enjoy the hobby without contributing to negative impacts on the world's coral reefs.

It is definitely tough to tell! I’ve you’re not seasoned enough to be able to tell by some of the signs (overall health, color, and growth) it’s good to look at the corals the vendor is selling. I like to see if the vendor has aquaculture acro colonies. These are acros that are full colonies with completely encrusted plugs, discs, or tiles. That tells me that even if they are buying and cutting corals for profit they know what they are doing and whatever I’m receiving has been cut and healed in a prestige running system. I hope this helps!

 

[X-37B]

This piece is sooooooo Chunky !!!!!

Now that's a frag! Nice!
Where can we see and purchase your inventory?

 

[14 foot reef]

Now that's a frag! Nice!
Where can we see and purchase your inventory?

Here is the CNC Inner Beauty Acro

Pic #1 - No lights at all, just warm ceiling lights, then pic #2 is full spectrum Quanta Atlas Lights 14K - No blue LED bars at all - Notice how White the frag rack is.....

 

[14 foot reef]

Grafted Monti Cap

 

[MnFish1]

NO offense - your corals are great - but I think we all have the information that they are great - I wish you would stop posting pictures without a reason to do so - as compared to advertising?

 

[14 foot reef]

NO offense - your corals are great - but I think we all have the information that they are great - I wish you would stop posting pictures without a reason to do so - as compared to advertising?

I will no longer post, my apologies to the group

 

[Troylee]

 

[Jasonak]

It is definitely tough to tell! I’ve you’re not seasoned enough to be able to tell by some of the signs (overall health, color, and growth) it’s good to look at the corals the vendor is selling. I like to see if the vendor has aquaculture acro colonies. These are acros that are full colonies with completely encrusted plugs, discs, or tiles. That tells me that even if they are buying and cutting corals for profit they know what they are doing and whatever I’m receiving has been cut and healed in a prestige running system. I hope this helps!

It is hard to tell between them if your not aware this is even a thing. I see more and more posts like this, which is great. Which means people ARE becoming aware of it. Ive been doing this forever. The problem is that allot of people are still not aware of the chop shop thing and some places do not disclose or explajn the diffrence. I only became aware of it about 2 years ago. I had no idea this was a thing I assumed they were all aquacultured and I was confused by the terminology of mariculture. I've been into reefing twenty years easy.

The big down side is that it has the potential to turn somebody off of reefing because you buy a few pieces and they keep dying on you. And then your like, nah, this is just way too hard. I mean, that can happen with any coral. But you have a higher failure rate with mariculture and especially the chop chop thing and if it does live it will most likely change appearance. Shops just need to be transparent and explain the difference.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

It is definitely tough to tell! I’ve you’re not seasoned enough to be able to tell by some of the signs (overall health, color, and growth) it’s good to look at the corals the vendor is selling. I like to see if the vendor has aquaculture acro colonies. These are acros that are full colonies with completely encrusted plugs, discs, or tiles. That tells me that even if they are buying and cutting corals for profit they know what they are doing and whatever I’m receiving has been cut and healed in a prestige running system. I hope this helps!

It is hard to tell between them if your not aware this is even a thing. I see more and more posts like this, which is great. Which means people ARE becoming aware of it. Ive been doing this forever. The problem is that allot of people are still not aware of the chop shop thing and some places do not disclose or explajn the diffrence. I only became aware of it about 2 years ago. I had no idea this was a thing I assumed they were all aquacultured and I was confused by the terminology of mariculture. I've been into reefing twenty years easy.

The big down side is that it has the potential to turn somebody off of reefing because you buy a few pieces and they keep dying on you. And then your like, nah, this is just way too hard. I mean, that can happen with any coral. But you have a higher failure rate with mariculture and especially the chop chop thing and if it does live it will most likely change appearance. Shops just need to be transparent and explain the difference.

Also beginners think it’s an issue with their system and keep changing parameters or adding chemicals to fix an issue that’s not in their control. Ultimately this creates instability and we all know how well that fairs in our systems!

 

[Troylee]

Also beginners think it’s an issue with their system and keep changing parameters or adding chemicals to fix an issue that’s not in their control. Ultimately this creates instability and we all know how well that fairs in our systems!

I’m pretty sure that’s how sps got a bad wrap! lol.. I can spot a chop shop a mile away! I’ve been doing this off and on for over 20 years and I stepped back in a couple years ago like I never skipped a beat! I had sps in my tank from day one and had a few small hiccups but only having my current display up 2 years with aqua cultured sticks I’d say I was pretty successful knowing these were all 1” frags 2 years ago!

 

[RobertK]

What about LPS frags? Is this just as prevalent and problematic with LPS corals, and are there any different precautions for avoiding LPS "chop shops"?

 

[Hishman]

Just bought a dozen Acros from a local hobbiest that were fragged on the spot. I didnt even have them put on plugs and they went direct to my tank looking fine.

There is nothing wrong with a fresh frag being sold. It’s the responsibility of the buyer to know the differences in frags.

I’d rather buy a 15$ fresh fragged acro than 250$ + for whatever silly “named” coral they come up with next.

 

[Troylee]

What about LPS frags? Is this just as prevalent and problematic with LPS corals, and are there any different precautions for avoiding LPS "chop shops"?

So…. I have a local who imports tons of torches and it seems they do good for a month or 2 then brown jelly… it’s really a crap shoot!