CO² scrubber help

[DeSoDo]

Hello reefers! I just did a co2 scrubber build and attached to my protein skimmer this morning when the media came in. Google says it takes around 24 hours to see an increase in pH. My current pH when lights are off is 7.7, and mid day with the lights on full blast is only at 8.0. My questions are:
Does it really work over the 24 hour period?
Will it harm anything in my tank for it to increase .3-.4 in a 24 hour period?

I'm pretty happy with my piecing it together. $26 to make this what it is.

 

[mcarroll]

My current pH when lights are off is 7.7, and mid day with the lights on full blast is only at 8.0.

Sounds almost perfect already.

My questions are:
Does it really work over the 24 hour period?
Will it harm anything in my tank for it to increase .3-.4 in a 24 hour period?

That depends on many factors, including the flow rate through it and total gallons you're treating.

Since your numbers are already good and I didn't hear a problem mentioned, I would be very careful in applying a hack like this.

"Low pH" is barely even a real issue, so doing this borders on chasing pH which is a no-no.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

No, that increase in PH over the 24hr period won't hurt anything. Where your readings are at I'd say you could leave things as is or use the scrubber, either way I think your PH is fine. If everything in the tank is happy don't chase the number.
I ran a scrubber for about a year, it worked well but was costly with constantly buying media. I decided to run a line to outside air for my skimmer and switched to that instead of the scrubber.

 

[DeSoDo]

No, that increase in PH over the 24hr period won't hurt anything. Where your readings are at I'd say you could leave things as is or use the scrubber, either way I think your PH is fine. If everything in the tank is happy don't chase the number.
I ran a scrubber for about a year, it worked well but was costly with constantly buying media. I decided to run a line to outside air for my skimmer and switched to that instead of the scrubber.

My corals have basically completely stopped growing, I figured after a little research that the lower ph would contribute to it.
Mag-1200ish
Cal-400ish
Phos-.05
Alk-8dkh
I just started dosing kalk+2 about 2 weeks ago.

 

[DeSoDo]

Sounds almost perfect already.


That depends on many factors, including the flow rate through it and total gallons you're treating.

Since your numbers are already good and I didn't hear a problem mentioned, I would be very careful in applying a hack like this.

"Low pH" is barely even a real issue, so doing this borders on chasing pH which is a no-no.

Coral growth has stopped. 65g tank. Flow rate in the tank is decent i guess, it keeps stuff moving.

 

[mmorrison55]

What kind of corals?


Vic @ world wide corals recommends the below for a more SPS dominant tank

Sal 1.025-1.026
Calcium 450-500
Magnesium 1400-1500
Nitrates 10-20
Phosphate <.08
Alkalinity 7-11 (8-9 ideal)

Ive been trying to keep close to these for my mixed reef and my corals are doing ok. I too have been trying to get my ph up. Using a kalkwasser stirrer.

 

[DeSoDo]

What kind of corals?


Vic @ world wide corals recommends the below for a more SPS dominant tank

Sal 1.025-1.026

Calcium 450-500

Magnesium 1400-1500

Nitrates 10-20

Phosphate <.08

Alkalinity 7-11 (8-9 ideal)

Lps. I don't have any sps at all.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

No, that increase in PH over the 24hr period won't hurt anything. Where your readings are at I'd say you could leave things as is or use the scrubber, either way I think your PH is fine. If everything in the tank is happy don't chase the number.
I ran a scrubber for about a year, it worked well but was costly with constantly buying media. I decided to run a line to outside air for my skimmer and switched to that instead of the scrubber.

My corals have basically completely stopped growing, I figured after a little research that the lower ph would contribute to it.
Mag-1200ish
Cal-400ish
Phos-.05
Alk-8dkh
I just started dosing kalk+2 about 2 weeks ago.

What lights are you running, what's the photo period, and what's the bio-load like for the rest of the tank?

 

[Biff0rz]

idk what the comments above are talking about with 8.0 on the high end being good - maybe for others, for many, it's not. I'd say typical is 8.0 on the low end, and 8.2 at the high end is 'pretty good'. Many reefers push pH to 8.4.

My corals have basically completely stopped growing, I figured after a little research that the lower ph would contribute to it.
Mag-1200ish
Cal-400ish
Phos-.05
Alk-8dkh
I just started dosing kalk+2 about 2 weeks ago.

You have parameter problems too which is contributing to slow growth - Mg, Ca are both low. Bring mag to 1350 and Ca to 450. Both of those help with calcification rates. pH in combination with that, will help overall.

funny enough, I changed my media yesterday. I noticed my ph was getting 'low' and changed it out. Previously, the low was around 8.1. This morning, the new low was at 8.24. My tank typically fluctuates between 8.2-8.6. Other things can impact pH too however, like flow, environment, and even your lighting period/intensity.

Benefits I've seen from higher pH-
PE
Faster growth
Better colors

Too much pH is bad too. I turn off my kalk/soda ash/skimmer when I go above 8.6.

Lastly, watch this video, lots of good information related to lighting, flow, ph, params, etc.


For reference, I keep an sps dominated tank. Hope this helps!

Picture because why not? lol

 

[DeSoDo]

What lights are you running, what's the photo period, and what's the bio-load like for the rest of the tank?

Fregenbo 165w, lights on 11a-9p. 65g breeder, same footprint as 40g breeder but taller. Lights are 10" above the tank. Only 9 fish in the tank, 5 shrimp (4 species), pincushion urchin, 2 zebra turbos and a dozen blue & red legged hermits. HOB filter rated for 100g, 3 wavemakers.

 

[DeSoDo]

idk what the comments above are talking about with 8.0 on the high end being good - maybe for others, for many, it's not. I'd say typical is 8.0 on the low end, and 8.2 at the high end is 'pretty good'. Many reefers push pH to 8.4.



You have parameter problems too which is contributing to slow growth - Mg, Ca are both low. Bring mag to 1350 and Ca to 450. Both of those help with calcification rates. pH in combination with that, will help overall.

funny enough, I changed my media yesterday. I noticed my ph was getting 'low' and changed it out. Previously, the low was around 8.1. This morning, the new low was at 8.24. My tank typically fluctuates between 8.2-8.6. Other things can impact pH too however, like flow, environment, and even your lighting period/intensity.

Benefits I've seen from higher pH-
PE
Faster growth
Better colors

Too much pH is bad too. I turn off my kalk/soda ash/skimmer when I go above 8.6.

Lastly, watch this video, lots of good information related to lighting, flow, ph, params, etc.


For reference, I keep an sps dominated tank. Hope this helps!

Picture because why not? lol

I've wanted sps, and tried with anacropora, it lived and started branching for about 4 months. Then completely bleached. I'll give the video a glance and I'll work on all other numbers. I know they're lower than what they should be and I've been trying to get them in line. I figured starting with getting the pH right would help get everything else in line. I'd be happy as hell if I can get my pH to 8.2, even more happy getting it to 8.4.

 

[Biff0rz]

I've wanted sps, and tried with anacropora, it lived and started branching for about 4 months. Then completely bleached. I'll give the video a glance and I'll work on all other numbers. I know they're lower than what they should be and I've been trying to get them in line. I figured starting with getting the pH right would help get everything else in line. I'd be happy as hell if I can get my pH to 8.2, even more happy getting it to 8.4.

Then I agree with the above thoughts/sentiments that you chasing pH is the wrong path. Follow this order-

Basics (lighting, flow, sg, temp) -> Nutrients (no3, po4) -> params (alk, ca, mg) -> others (pH, trace, etc)

All of the above make the 'system' work, and, then you can grow sps, maybe (lol). I'd say if you can get all up to params correct, you can keep most corals.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

I agree with the above that your cal and mag are low, but it's marginally low. The increase in cal will benefit the lps but there's still enough there for it to grow.
Coral will grow with light and nutrients, it's finding that sweet spot that works best.
There are people with thriving tanks at a ph in the 7's and others who don't even test or track ph.
Changes take time to show with coral so be patient.
You can try feeding heavier or add a couple fish to the tank.
The scrubber to raise ph isn't a bad thing but the ph isn't the root cause of your slow coral growth.

 

[DeSoDo]

I agree with the above that your cal and mag are low, but it's marginally low. The increase in cal will benefit the lps but there's still enough there for it to grow.
Coral will grow with light and nutrients, it's finding that sweet spot that works best.
There are people with thriving tanks at a ph in the 7's and others who don't even test or track ph.
Changes take time to show with coral so be patient.
You can try feeding heavier or add a couple fish to the tank.
The scrubber to raise ph isn't a bad thing but the ph isn't the root cause of your slow coral growth.

I have 9 fish and inverts, all corals and fish have been in the tank for almost 1.5yrs except the tomini tang, kuekenthali cleaner shrimp and my new skunk cleaner. Seems like I've been chasing the numbers from jump. It's the primary reason I went with instant ocean reef crystals, because of the elevated elements. My sg is @ 1.026 as well. Forgot to mention that.

 

[mcarroll]

I figured after a little research that the lower ph would contribute to it.

Corals control the pH of the water internally that matters to their growth.

Coral growth has stopped. 65g tank. Flow rate in the tank is decent i guess, it keeps stuff moving.

Movement ≠ good flow. It's also hard to gauge by GPH since most makers seem to market the highest numbers regardless of what works.

It can be tricky, but try to validate whether your flow is actually good. Can your flow move smaller grains of sand? How long can it keep flake food from settling into the rocks and sand? Do you have detritus settling in places?

Lps. I don't have any sps at all.

Marketing names for stony corals. Stony corals are what we are trying to cater to here.

Fregenbo 165w, lights on 11a-9p. 65g breeder, same footprint as 40g breeder but taller. Lights are 10" above the tank. Only 9 fish in the tank, 5 shrimp (4 species), pincushion urchin, 2 zebra turbos and a dozen blue & red legged hermits. HOB filter rated for 100g, 3 wavemakers.

Not a breeder if it's tall. By convention breeder tanks are low to facilitate working in the tank and a higher gas exchange vs tall tanks. I did hear there's a 60 breeder out, but 4 ft long and still low.

I've wanted sps, and tried with anacropora, it lived and started branching for about 4 months. Then completely bleached.

Try something easier first. Some SPS have VERY low tolerance for variance in water quality. Some are very tolerant. Choose some from the easier end of the spectrum.

I'll give the video a glance and I'll work on all other numbers. I know they're lower than what they should be and I've been trying to get them in line. I figured starting with getting the pH right would help get everything else in line. I'd be happy as hell if I can get my pH to 8.2, even more happy getting it to 8.4.

No...pH does not work like that at all.

It is 100% a computed value based on atmospheric CO2 levels and your water's alkalinity.

Watch people chase pH if you want, but on your tank focus on the fundamentals that underpin pH and focus in understanding more how the corals work. (E.g. they do not depend on the water's pH)

I have 9 fish and inverts, all corals and fish have been in the tank for almost 1.5yrs except the tomini tang, kuekenthali cleaner shrimp and my new skunk cleaner. Seems like I've been chasing the numbers from jump. It's the primary reason I went with instant ocean reef crystals, because of the elevated elements. My sg is @ 1.026 as well. Forgot to mention that.

Using an enriched salt mix is not chasing numbers.

If they were advertising "Mixes to ph 8.4!!!!" and that was the reason you switched then it would be.

Reef crystals has enhanced amounts of the minerals that corals use to build their skeletons. (Some of which do contribute to the tank's pH.)

Coral growth can appear to plateau (or may actually plateau) for a number of reasons.

One of the main things is that frags exhibit a growth spurt, setting your expectations pretty high for what growth looks like.

Then growth naturally slows once frag mode wears off.

Further, the growth you do see is spread over a larger and larger area as the coral grows out.

All of that would lead to a perception of slowing or stalled growth, but growth is still happening.

Now if the tank had experienced some disturbance, then growth could be stalled for another range of reasons, but you would want to be specific about what happened in that case.

I would stop trying to find something wrong and just observe for a while you focus on fundamentals.

 

[Naso180!]

One thing I didn't see mentioned is that if your dosing Kalkwasser as of 2 weeks ago Id ask what are you dosing based off of? If monitoring Alkalinity and dosing according to consumption, you shouldn't have an issue with PH. Consequently if your Alk isn't dropping much between waterchanges. Id say you need not worry about Alkalinity at 8dkh or Ph 8.0 during its peak. They definitely within bounds. Seems like you'd just be better off doing 10% weekly water changes than dosing Kalkwasser or the Co2 scrubber at this point.

 

[DeSoDo]

Corals control the pH of the water internally that matters to their growth.


Movement ≠ good flow. It's also hard to gauge by GPH since most makers seem to market the highest numbers regardless of what works.

It can be tricky, but try to validate whether your flow is actually good. Can your flow move smaller grains of sand? How long can it keep flake food from settling into the rocks and sand? Do you have detritus settling in places?


Marketing names for stony corals. Stony corals are what we are trying to cater to here.


Not a breeder if it's tall. By convention breeder tanks are low to facilitate working in the tank and a higher gas exchange vs tall tanks. I did hear there's a 60 breeder out, but 4 ft long and still low.


Try something easier first. Some SPS have VERY low tolerance for variance in water quality. Some are very tolerant. Choose some from the easier end of the spectrum.


No...pH does not work like that at all.

It is 100% a computed value based on atmospheric CO2 levels and your water's alkalinity.

Watch people chase pH if you want, but on your tank focus on the fundamentals that underpin pH and focus in understanding more how the corals work. (E.g. they do not depend on the water's pH)


Using an enriched salt mix is not chasing numbers.

If they were advertising "Mixes to ph 8.4!!!!" and that was the reason you switched then it would be.

Reef crystals has enhanced amounts of the minerals that corals use to build their skeletons. (Some of which do contribute to the tank's pH.)

Coral growth can appear to plateau (or may actually plateau) for a number of reasons.

One of the main things is that frags exhibit a growth spurt, setting your expectations pretty high for what growth looks like.

Then growth naturally slows once frag mode wears off.

Further, the growth you do see is spread over a larger and larger area as the coral grows out.

All of that would lead to a perception of slowing or stalled growth, but growth is still happening.

Now if the tank had experienced some disturbance, then growth could be stalled for another range of reasons, but you would want to be specific about what happened in that case.

I would stop trying to find something wrong and just observe for a while you focus on fundamentals.

That's a lot to unpack and I'll take all of that to heart. There was one thing that happened to the tank, a major bryopsis breakout. I finally got it under control and I've been dealing with all of the die-off from that, and in doing so, I think i may have given the tank the fuel for cyano. Haven't identified it, but just going off of Google photos. The last time I tested numbers was before I finally got rid of the bryopsis 2-2.5 weeks ago. I haven't exactly done anything the conventional way, which I guess I should because I want the tank to be successful.

 

[DeSoDo]

One thing I didn't see mentioned is that if your dosing Kalkwasser as of 2 weeks ago Id ask what are you dosing based off of? If monitoring Alkalinity and dosing according to consumption, you shouldn't have an issue with PH. Consequently if your Alk isn't dropping much between waterchanges. Id say you need not worry about Alkalinity at 8dkh or Ph 8.0 during its peak. They definitely within bounds. Seems like you'd just be better off doing 10% weekly water changes than dosing Kalkwasser or the Co2 scrubber at this point.

I started dosing kalk+2 because my alk was low, 5.9-6dkh.

 

[ReeferDog]

idk what the comments above are talking about with 8.0 on the high end being good - maybe for others, for many, it's not. I'd say typical is 8.0 on the low end, and 8.2 at the high end is 'pretty good'. Many reefers push pH to 8.4.



You have parameter problems too which is contributing to slow growth - Mg, Ca are both low. Bring mag to 1350 and Ca to 450. Both of those help with calcification rates. pH in combination with that, will help overall.

funny enough, I changed my media yesterday. I noticed my ph was getting 'low' and changed it out. Previously, the low was around 8.1. This morning, the new low was at 8.24. My tank typically fluctuates between 8.2-8.6. Other things can impact pH too however, like flow, environment, and even your lighting period/intensity.

Benefits I've seen from higher pH-
PE
Faster growth
Better colors

Too much pH is bad too. I turn off my kalk/soda ash/skimmer when I go above 8.6.

Lastly, watch this video, lots of good information related to lighting, flow, ph, params, etc.


For reference, I keep an sps dominated tank. Hope this helps!

Picture because why not? lol

What acro is that?

 

[Biff0rz]

What acro is that?

CC Pink Highlighter, it's a beauty!