Copper or...?

[HotRocks]

Ok, so I ran into a bit of a problem, the potter’s suddenly wouldn’t eat. He hangs out in his PVC pipe most of the time, but can sometimes “hang out” with the other angels in the qt. He stopped grazing the floor full of pellets/frozen food all of a sudden. Hopefully, @4FordFamily or @HotRocks or any other who could offer their insight can help. Params are fine and there’s copper in the tank.

What is your Cu level and how are you testing?

 

[mjreefs]

What is your Cu level and how are you testing?

Current Cu level is at 0.21 tested via Hanna HR Copper Checker.

 

[HotRocks]

That is under half of the therapeutic level. I'd guess it's something else causing this. Have you seen any white stringy poop?

 

[mjreefs]

Well, before it went down to 0.21, it was at 0.35, I'm trying to remove Cu within the last 24 hours.

I haven't seen anything odd including white stringy poop, fish looks fine and quite plump. No aggression from the flame or from the scribbled or whatsoever. It just prefers to hang out into his corner and comes out once in a while but not to eat.

 

[mjreefs]

That is under half of the therapeutic level. I'd guess it's something else causing this. Have you seen any white stringy poop?

Well, before it went down to 0.21, it was at 0.35, I'm trying to remove Cu within the last 24 hours.

I haven't seen anything odd including white stringy poop, fish looks fine and quite plump. No aggression from the flame or from the scribbled or whatsoever. It just prefers to hang out into his corner and comes out once in a while but not to eat.

I checked copper again and it was at 0.16

 

[4FordFamily]

You’re removing copper, how long were you over .5 ppm?

Angels can be tough but if you didn’t kill velvet or ich in the gills they can stop eating and die pretty quickly. As you remove copper if the treatment wasn’t effective the parasites will proliferate.

Potters can be difficult, sometimes seemingly for no reason.

 

[mjreefs]

You’re removing copper, how long were you over .5 ppm?

Angels can be tough but if you didn’t kill velvet or ich in the gills they can stop eating and die pretty quickly. As you remove copper if the treatment wasn’t effective the parasites will proliferate.

Potters can be difficult, sometimes seemingly for no reason.

I didn't even ramp up to 0.5ppm copper, I introduced the fish immediately to my qt with 0.35ppm copper (therapeutic level) upon arrival. I did freshwater dip before introducing to the qt. I started to lower copper after days of not eating, because my hunch was that it was copper that's suppressing the appetite of the angelfish.

 

[mjreefs]

But in this case, should i err in the side of caution, that I ramp up my copper instead?

 

[mjreefs]

Ok, so I decided to stop decreasing copper and instead ramp up copper slowly. I believe the potter's would manage to eat even in copper. I'd rather treat than have it die from velvet.

 

[HotRocks]

The last one I QT'd required live blackworms to get it to start eating. It did so in fully therapeutic copper.

It ate frozen the next day, so two feedings of live food and transitioned right over to frozen.

It lives happily in @4FordFamily's DT!

 

[mjreefs]

The last one I QT'd required live blackworms to get it to start eating. It did so in fully therapeutic copper.

It ate frozen the next day, so two feedings of live food and transitioned right over to frozen.

It lives happily in @4FordFamily's DT!

It's actually odd that it stopped eating. It was eating some pellets here and there, but then stopped suddenly. It looked like the flame took its appetite LOL.

 

[HotRocks]

Are you offering any frozen at all?

 

[4FordFamily]

.35 may be therapeutic according to the bottle but I wouldn’t let it sit below .5 for cupramine. I don’t agree that it will work. Perhaps .45 but I wouldn’t risk it, personally.

 

[mjreefs]

Are you offering any frozen at all?

Yes I'm actually offering pellets (NLS, AF, PE Mysis), frozen angelfish mix, frozen mysis and easy reefs masstick. For the pellets and frozen food, I also use garlic guard along with it. I don't know if i'm doing it right tho, but i load 2-3 drops of garlic guard into a small container with the pellets and let it sit around 10 minutes then just dump the whole thing in. Same goes with the frozen.

.35 may be therapeutic according to the bottle but I wouldn’t let it sit below .5 for cupramine. I don’t agree that it will work. Perhaps .45 but I wouldn’t risk it, personally.

Alright, but would probably do this in a span of probably 4 days or so, since may current Cu reading is at 0.16. Already dosed an additional ~0.05ppm will test tomorrow and dose another 0.05ppm every 12 hours.

 

[mjreefs]

Was able to raise by ~.1ppm for the past 24 hours. Will raise it by another ~.1ppm in the next 24 hours hopefully to achieve .4ppm then another 24-36 hours to achieve .5ppm. Potter's still not eating, offered Thera A, PE Mysis pellets, frozen angel mix today. Will try masstick tomorrow.

As a sidenote, I've noticed that PE Mysis pellets do a better job of absorbing moisture, therefore, it was able to soak up the garlic guard in around 15 minutes or probably less (wasn't able to observe). But they form a huge clump. The scribbled angel loves it and goes bonkers over it. NLS Thera A pellets don't absorb it much or probably not at all, since even after 30 minutes, the size is around the same and the garlic guard still remains.

 

[mjreefs]

So the little guy didn’t make it. Found em dead this morning. I took a picture of its corpse and looks like some sort of bloated belly? I’m not sure because this is the first time I see it in a dead fish. Here’s a pic.

 

[HotRocks]

So the little guy didn’t make it. Found em dead this morning. I took a picture of its corpse and looks like some sort of bloated belly? I’m not sure because this is the first time I see it in a dead fish. Here’s a pic.

Was another fish picking at it post death? Could have been an infection if not.

 

[mjreefs]

Was another fish picking at it post death? Could have been an infection if not.

Didn't see a fish picking on it, everyone else was looking for food somewhere else. Didn't mind the dead fish. If it was an infection, is it most likely bacterial? And could it be attributed to its refusal to eat?

 

[mjreefs]

So, I gave it another shot and bought another Potter’s. This time it’s smaller by half an inch so it’s around 2”. I am now able to observe more closely because he’s in an isobox. He eats a little here and there but two things I’ve noticed:
1. He would sometimes spit out food. Probably 1 in 2 granules/pieces, then after 10 seconds, would reattempt eating it. Sometimes spits it out, sometimes swallows it. He’s a constant grazer though, grazes the bottom of my isobox often.
2. He reufuses to eat anything “big”. He prefers 0.5mm pellets and “crushed” frozen mysis, although, not yet a hearty eater.

Is there any problem with him? @HotRocks and @4FordFamily hope you guys could chime in, if you don’t mind. Many thanks!

 

[4FordFamily]

So, I gave it another shot and bought another Potter’s. This time it’s smaller by half an inch so it’s around 2”. I am now able to observe more closely because he’s in an isobox. He eats a little here and there but two things I’ve noticed:
1. He would sometimes spit out food. Probably 1 in 2 granules/pieces, then after 10 seconds, would reattempt eating it. Sometimes spits it out, sometimes swallows it. He’s a constant grazer though, grazes the bottom of my isobox often.
2. He reufuses to eat anything “big”. He prefers 0.5mm pellets and “crushed” frozen mysis, although, not yet a hearty eater.

Is there any problem with him? @HotRocks and @4FordFamily hope you guys could chime in, if you don’t mind. Many thanks!

That sounds like pretty normal behavior. They spit food out and put it back in their mouth to “soften it up”. Potters aren’t usually great eaters right away. It’s good that it does interest.