Ich X okay for butterfly fish?

[gabriellar]

Hi, my yellow long-nose butterfly has multiple white dots on its fins/body and scratches itself on the rock, most likely infected by ich. I looked through the forum and found that most of the suggestions pointed to copper safe or other copper powder-based medicine. I have Ich-X at hand, recommended by LFS previously. But I heard Ich-X can be very poisonous, and I want to confirm if this is safe to use to treat butterfly fish or if I should go get copper-based ones instead? Right now, this butterfly fish still looks very active and has a good appetite so far. Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi, my yellow long-nose butterfly has multiple white dots on its fins/body and scratches itself on the rock, most likely infected by ich. I looked through the forum and found that most of the suggestions pointed to copper safe or other copper powder-based medicine. I have Ich-X at hand, recommended by LFS previously. But I heard Ich-X can be very poisonous, and I want to confirm if this is safe to use to treat butterfly fish or if I should go get copper-based ones instead? Right now, this butterfly fish still looks very active and has a good appetite so far. Thanks!

I had is a tonic and simply does not work
It’s is safe to use coppersafe or copper power at 2.25ppm in a separate tank and monitor ammonia with a reliable test kit such as Hanna brand

 

[exnisstech]

You may want to confirm what you are treating. Scratching could indicate flukes. Maybe post a video as described below to help with a positive ID.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...sease-treatment-and-diagnosis-section.775547/

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi, my yellow long-nose butterfly has multiple white dots on its fins/body and scratches itself on the rock, most likely infected by ich. I looked through the forum and found that most of the suggestions pointed to copper safe or other copper powder-based medicine. I have Ich-X at hand, recommended by LFS previously. But I heard Ich-X can be very poisonous, and I want to confirm if this is safe to use to treat butterfly fish or if I should go get copper-based ones instead? Right now, this butterfly fish still looks very active and has a good appetite so far. Thanks!

Ich-X is formalin and malachite green. That can be toxic to some fish, but more importantly, it has a poor track record for treatment marine ich.

As mentioned, if you post a clear video under white lights, we can try to confirm that it is ich you are dealing with. Then, coppersafe or copper power are your best choices, but these cannot be used with invertebrates or corals present.

 

[gabriellar]

 

[gabriellar]

Sometimes I have problem uploading videos, if the above one does not show properly, here are some pictures as well:

 

[Ziggy17]

I’d immediately stop taking advice from a LFS that advised you to use ick X.

 

[gabriellar]

Ordered copper power, should arrive tomorrow! Now I just need to figure out how to get rid of all the already added ich x in the water… would carbon filter + 30% water change suffice?

 

[Ziggy17]

Water change for sure, but can’t comment of the efficacy of carbon with ick X. Jay advises that it’s not great for copper removal as it’s too slow, but it may be better removing metro. I’m sure he will chime in.

 

[Ziggy17]

Removing the ick X should be done either way, but I’d hold off on any further treatment until you get a Dx from one of the medics.

 

[exnisstech]

I'll tag #fishmedics since images and video are up.
Not sure if I'm tagging correctly or not. I'm old and don't really get the # thing.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ordered copper power, should arrive tomorrow! Now I just need to figure out how to get rid of all the already added ich x in the water… would carbon filter + 30% water change suffice?

The formalin in the ich-x will disapate into the air in the room in 24 hours. The malachite green component can be removed with good activated carbon and/or water changes. I’d do more than 30% though…..

 

[gabriellar]

The formalin in the ich-x will disapate into the air in the room in 24 hours. The malachite green component can be removed with good activated carbon and/or water changes. I’d do more than 30% though…..

Thanks for the suggestions! May I also get a confirmation whether it's just ich or there is something else I need to worry about as well? My videos and pictures are a few comments above: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-x-okay-for-butterfly-fish.1155964/post-14310758

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the suggestions! May I also get a confirmation whether it's just ich or there is something else I need to worry about as well? My videos and pictures are a few comments above: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-x-okay-for-butterfly-fish.1155964/post-14310758

Visual disease diagnosis is always provisional, but I think the fish has ich, but may also have skin flukes as well (the fin flicking and larger bumps). I would treat with copper first and then follow that with a praziquantel treatment for possible flukes.

 

[gabriellar]

I have changed 30% of water yesterday, and will be changing another 30% water today. And will start copper dosing tonight. The fish store where I got fish recommends increment concentration 0.5 per day until it reaches 2.25. But let me know if it's safe to dose even faster to reach the effective concentration.

I forgot to add into the description yesterday that the white dots seems to develop fast -- first day I only see very few dots on the fin, and then second day (yesterday) as you can see in the picture, one side of the body is already covered in many dots, so are fins. I read through several posts and learned that velvet can look very similar as Ich visually? I don't think I described well previously for how fast dots developed when I asked for help. Currently it still swims well, eat well, no clear sign of breathing issue, looks pretty much the same as yesterday's video. Possible to rule out velvet (I hope)?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I have changed 30% of water yesterday, and will be changing another 30% water today. And will start copper dosing tonight. The fish store where I got fish recommends increment concentration 0.5 per day until it reaches 2.25. But let me know if it's safe to dose even faster to reach the effective concentration.

I forgot to add into the description yesterday that the white dots seems to develop fast -- first day I only see very few dots on the fin, and then second day (yesterday) as you can see in the picture, one side of the body is already covered in many dots, so are fins. I read through several posts and learned that velvet can look very similar as Ich visually? I don't think I described well previously for how fast dots developed when I asked for help. Currently it still swims well, eat well, no clear sign of breathing issue, looks pretty much the same as yesterday's video. Possible to rule out velvet (I hope)?

The store is wrong about slow ramp up of copper, that only applies to ionic copper, not chelated copper that you are using. You need to get to a full dose in 12 to 24 hours. More important is an accurate dose - are you using the Hanna HR meter?

Velvet is misidentified as ch by a lot of people. Velvet causes very rapid breathing, not eating and hanging in water flow. Any skin changes are more a cloudiness, near the fish’s death. If you can see spots, it’s ich.

 

[gabriellar]

The store is wrong about slow ramp up of copper, that only applies to ionic copper, not chelated copper that you are using. You need to get to a full dose in 12 to 24 hours. More important is an accurate dose - are you using the Hanna HR meter?

Velvet is misidentified as ch by a lot of people. Velvet causes very rapid breathing, not eating and hanging in water flow. Any skin changes are more a cloudiness, near the fish’s death. If you can see spots, it’s ich.

My LFS only has API test which I grabbed yesterday. Hanna meter will be arriving on Tuesday. I know API test has limited accuracy but was wondering if i can record how much I dosed to reach 1.0, then adding 2/3 of the portion to reach 1.75 (Assuming the therapeutic range is 1.5 - 2ppm according to HumbleFish's thread -- https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chelated-copper-is-chelated-copper.373513/ )

 

[winxp_man]

Ich-X is formalin and malachite green. That can be toxic to some fish, but more importantly, it has a poor track record for treatment marine ich.

As mentioned, if you post a clear video under white lights, we can try to confirm that it is ich you are dealing with. Then, coppersafe or copper power are your best choices, but these cannot be used with invertebrates or corals present.

Jay, I tired it just to try it. It simply does not work on marine ich. And the fish I tried it with did not have much ich that I could see in the form of cones as ich was coming off the fish. I tried it for 10 days. Ich was still there. Copper powder at 2.35 ppm solved the issue real quick. The cones disappeared in days and never to be seen again. It was a pair of maroon clowns.

Had a friend ask about ich x and told him only for FW possibly. I don’t know much about fresh water.

 

[kevin-aa]

i am from China，here we alaways say butterfly fish Drug intolerance。when you found whit dot，someone use Copper medicine （but butterfly fish durg intolerance，pleace notice For dosage issues, you can check the forum.）and may you can also use AB bottle,Prepare 2 large buckets. Put oxygen in the first bucket, bucket A, and place the fish in it for one day. Use bucket B the next day with clean water and oxygen. Continue this cycle; it will take about 14 days to resolve. Make sure to provide oxygen. After using the buckets, be sure to disinfect and dry them!For your reference

 

[gabriellar]

i am from China，here we alaways say butterfly fish Drug intolerance。when you found whit dot，someone use Copper medicine （but butterfly fish durg intolerance，pleace notice For dosage issues, you can check the forum.）and may you can also use AB bottle,Prepare 2 large buckets. Put oxygen in the first bucket, bucket A, and place the fish in it for one day. Use bucket B the next day with clean water and oxygen. Continue this cycle; it will take about 14 days to resolve. Make sure to provide oxygen. After using the buckets, be sure to disinfect and dry them!For your reference

sounds like the AB bucket is trying to get rid of the free swimming parasite by replacing water 100% on a daily basis? How do you avoid stressing out the fish?