Copper

[sde1500]

Tank has taken a turn for the worst the last couple weeks. Lost some of my big colonies of montiporas, chalice, cyphastrea. Hammer and frogspawn frags mostly dead, a big acan echinata colony had flesh melting off it left and right. Huge water change, and a ton of carbon had stemmed the issue for a week, now it is back. Torch looking beat, scoly starting to mimic the echinata. All seemed to have started with an Urchin dying. Yellow Eye Kole Tang looking very stressed, other fish in various stages of looking a bit off to not bothered at all. Oddly, my acros seem fine, my clam is fine, single peppermint shrimp, and plenty of bristleworms/hermits all alive, various zoa colonies looking 50/50 some angry some completely unbothered, same with GSP and Duncan. On a whim did a copper test, which came back .08. Low, but not what I'd want to see in a display tank. Same number in my top off, .03 in my NSW. ICP test kits and cuprisorb on the way, along with new filters for the RODI.

So copper seems to be stemming from my water, really hoping I correctly ID'd the issue. What confuses me is the different reactions. Acros which are supposed to be so sensitive to anything are looking like nothing is going on, while mere inches away flesh melts off LPS. Inverts looking fine, while the Urchin died. Makes me think it isn't copper that is the problem, but no other current ideas. 5 years without a problem like this, was just about to move many of these corals to a new tank for my boys while I convert the DT to acro dominant. Skimmer pump seems to have kicked it, and had a slow leak from a reactor I didn't tighten enough after refilling carbon. So thats three, uphill from here right?

 

[fishguy242]

hi sorry to hear..icp cannot get here fast enough..!!! @Eagle_Steve ?? thoughts?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

hi sorry to hear..icp cannot get here fast enough..!!! @Eagle_Steve ?? thoughts?

I would also order a poly filter. The one that changes colors for different metals. Put it just below drains and check for a color change every few hours. Amazon is usually overnight for those if you are within 40-50 miles of a distro.

Outside of that, throw up the full rundown of parameters and a few pics of the affect corals. Maybe something will stick out.

 

[sde1500]

Right, didn't mention that but Poly Filter is in, turned brown. Didn't even indicate copper which was surprising. Hanna Checker did though.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Right, didn't mention that but Poly Filter is in, turned brown. Didn't even indicate copper which was surprising. Hanna Checker did though.

Here is the hard part. Brown is not always brown like normal, as any detritus turns it brown quick. Cut the filter a little and look at the inside of it. Do you see any orange, blue, red? Just a small slit is all that is needed.

Another quick thing to look at is everything with a magnet. Pumps, power heads, frag racks, etc.

You are looking for any seepage or cracking.

 

[sde1500]

hi sorry to hear..icp cannot get here fast enough..!!! @Eagle_Steve ?? thoughts?

Agreed. Sadly not a quick solution even if I had one handy considering the wait to test results.

Here is the hard part. Brown is not always brown like normal, as any detritus turns it brown quick. Cut the filter a little and look at the inside of it. Do you see any orange, blue, red? Just a small slit is all that is needed.

Another quick thing to look at is everything with a magnet. Pumps, power heads, frag racks, etc.

You are looking for any seepage or cracking.

It’s been running a week, so maybe that’s it. But quite brown inside and out. Magnets all looked good when I cleaned them last week after the first round of die off. Def learning copper from water, pipes are copper and RODI might be bad? DI resin lasted me 4 years last time, still has plenty of color left but who knows.
Alk at 8.15, cal 435, mag 1400 nitrates 10 maybe idk stupid color can’t ever tell.

 

[fishguy242]

parameters,gallons,skimmer? thought you had sent icp out..i misread.. ;Facepalm 4 yrs on di resin?? @Eagle_Steve

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Agreed. Sadly not a quick solution even if I had one handy considering the wait to test results.

It’s been running a week, so maybe that’s it. But quite brown inside and out. Magnets all looked good when I cleaned them last week after the first round of die off. Def learning copper from water, pipes are copper and RODI might be bad? DI resin lasted me 4 years last time, still has plenty of color left but who knows.
Alk at 8.15, cal 435, mag 1400 nitrates 10 maybe idk stupid color can’t ever tell.

Do you know what po4 is? Also salinity and tank size would be helpful.

 

[sde1500]

parameters,gallons,skimmer? thought you had sent icp out..i misread.. ;Facepalm 4 yrs on di resin?? @Eagle_Steve

Lol yea on the last one. This ones like 6 months old. Well water that gets single digits TDI into the DI is barely wore it down. Pulled the skimmer today, it went nuts last week when this happened. Got it settled back in but turned off yesterday and it wouldn’t start when I turned it back on. 65 DT, with 10g frag tank connected. 35ppt salinity 8.15 alk, 435 cal, 1400 mg. And idk nutrients. Nothing that would cause flesh loss overnight like this.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Lol yea on the last one. This ones like 6 months old. Well water that gets single digits TDI into the DI is barely wore it down. Pulled the skimmer today, it went nuts last week when this happened. Got it settled back in but turned off yesterday and it wouldn’t start when I turned it back on. 65 DT, with 10g frag tank connected. 35ppt salinity 8.15 alk, 435 cal, 1400 mg. And idk nutrients. Nothing that would cause flesh loss overnight like this.

Ok, so the skimmer went nuts? Do you know what caused this?

 

[sde1500]

I assumed the ongoing flesh loss from the corals the first round of die off. Flesh was just melting off the acan colony, hammers, frogspawn and chalice. Happened overnight so can’t say I saw what started first.

 

[sde1500]

Pic of the tang. Same Marking showed up last week. Cleared after the water change that stopped the coral death lastweek. Back now

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I assumed the ongoing flesh loss from the corals the first round of die off. Flesh was just melting off the acan colony, hammers, frogspawn and chalice. Happened overnight so can’t say I saw what started first.

It almost seems like the event that caused the skimmer to overflow also killed the corals. I have lost massive colonies before and my skimmer did not go crazy at all. That doesn’t mean anything, but just my experience.

Was anything new added to the tank, the room the tank is in? Air fresheners (including plug in ones), scented candles, etc.? Air filters for hvac changed out, heavy vacuuming? Just looking for possible external factors.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

It almost seems like the event that caused the skimmer to overflow also killed the corals. I have lost massive colonies before and my skimmer did not go crazy at all. That doesn’t mean anything, but just my experience.

Was anything new added to the tank, the room the tank is in? Air fresheners (including plug in ones), scented candles, etc.? Air filters for hvac changed out, heavy vacuuming? Just looking for possible external factors.

The urchin dying more than likely was not the issue, but they are canaries in a coal mine so to speak. Very sensitive critters.

 

[sde1500]

Nope nothing out of the ordinary. No scented things allowed in the room. No sprays etc. can’t think of anything. Nothing dosed. Friday 2/12 corals seemed a bit off but nothing big. Came down the next morning and corals looked bad. Thought maybe bacterial bloom as the water was a bit cloudy but bubbles too from skimmer going nuts. Urchin had shed tons of spines. Cleaned what I could and started making more water as I was low. Next day coral looked worse, 30g water change, by Monday everything stabilized. Things good looking til today.

 

[sde1500]

The clam and acros, and Duncan looking complete unbothered by this, while surrounded by mass LPS die off has me a bit mystified. Not brown jelly, I’ve dealt with that. The tang showing something too is odd too

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Nope nothing out of the ordinary. No scented things allowed in the room. No sprays etc. can’t think of anything. Nothing dosed. Friday 2/12 corals seemed a bit off but nothing big. Came down the next morning and corals looked bad. Thought maybe bacterial bloom as the water was a bit cloudy but bubbles too from skimmer going nuts. Urchin had shed tons of spines. Cleaned what I could and started making more water as I was low. Next day coral looked worse, 30g water change, by Monday everything stabilized. Things good looking til today.

Sounds like a water change was helpful, so a contaminant of some sort is likely affecting them. Hanna has a margin of error of +/- .05, so .08 could be .03 or .13. Even the latter is not that high. Provided it is assumed chelated copper and not something like cupramine.

Have you checked the sump, tank etc for any metal objects or anything foreign?

What’s weird is the sps is fine, softies look fine in the pic but lps is dying, yet the one euphillia just looks ticked off. There is the possibility of it being bacterial, as the fish is also affected.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

@Jay Hemdal

Can you ID what the deal is with the tang above? Not sure it will help with the other issues, but I have seen coral bacteria issues affect fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Can you ID what the deal is with the tang above? Not sure it will help with the other issues, but I have seen coral bacteria issues affect fish.

Hi, I was thinking the same thing - a bacterial overgrowth of some pathogen like one of the Pseudomonas that is focusing on the LPS and the fish?

I wonder if the copper is a "red herring", in that most cases of systematic poisonings come on gradually, and not overnight like that.

Trouble is, I can only see half the equation as I am not simply a coral guy, my specialty is fish and some macroinverts.

Jay

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Hi, I was thinking the same thing - a bacterial overgrowth of some pathogen like one of the Pseudomonas that is focusing on the LPS and the fish?

I wonder if the copper is a "red herring", in that most cases of systematic poisonings come on gradually, and not overnight like that.

Trouble is, I can only see half the equation as I am not simply a coral guy, my specialty is fish and some macroinverts.

Jay

That’s why I asked you here. Thanks for the reply. I know more about corals and nems than fish.

The question becomes what action. I am thinking it got better with a water change. Do more water changes and skim wet. But then cipro comes to mind. I have treated numerous coral with it, just not fish or inverts.