*COPPERSAFE WARNING* along with Research on Hanna Instruments High Range Copper Checker

[4FordFamily]

Just a follow up to my QT Experiment:
They all made it to the DT over the weekend! Sorry I am terrible at taking pics of fish. My Achilles is not happy with the new tangs or the Moorish Idol. I got a good pic of him showing his display!
Pretty cool to have success with the MI on my first attempt (He was fat and eating when he arrived so I did not have that hurdle). Full proof that the known sensitive species to copper and QT may not be as sensitive as we thought prior, since the level can be monitored precisely now!

Looks great! On to the next batch!

 

[HotRocks]

Looks great! On to the next batch!

Yeah, you didn't waste any time there did ya?

 

[4FordFamily]

Yeah, you didn't waste any time there did ya?

That’s your fault.

 

[Tyson]

Got my checker yesterday! I just finished putting a kole tang through QT last week and left the tank up and running so I could measure once I received it. I thought I was dosing coppersafe pretty conservatively, but I measured at 2.95ppm with the new checker . So glad he made it through that. I'm sure this has had some impact on some of my QT issues over the last year. Thanks for all the hard work on this!

 

[Big G]

but I measured at 2.95ppm with the new checker

Yep. Same story. Thought mine was good at 2.00 ppm using API test kit; Hanna showed at 2.80 yikes!

 

[deedubz]

Just a follow up to my QT Experiment:
They all made it to the DT over the weekend! Sorry I am terrible at taking pics of fish. My Achilles is not happy with the new tangs or the Moorish Idol. I got a good pic of him showing his display!
Pretty cool to have success with the MI on my first attempt (He was fat and eating when he arrived so I did not have that hurdle). Full proof that the known sensitive species to copper and QT may not be as sensitive as we thought prior, since the level can be monitored precisely now!

That's awesome man! I bet they're loving life!

 

[HotRocks]

Got my checker yesterday! I just finished putting a kole tang through QT last week and left the tank up and running so I could measure once I received it. I thought I was dosing coppersafe pretty conservatively, but I measured at 2.95ppm with the new checker . So glad he made it through that. I'm sure this has had some impact on some of my QT issues over the last year. Thanks for all the hard work on this!

Glad your guy made it through. That's getting up there close to toxic. Just wait till you see how much easier it is to use copper with your next QT batch having the checker on hand.

 

[Sleepydoc]

So just to add to the confusion with Coppersafe - I got around to dosing a 5 gallon bucket of DI water with cupramine and coppersafe to check the levels. Below are my results:

Cupramine
0.5ml/5 gallons => 0.32 ppm
1.5ml/5 gallons => 0.92 ppm

Coppersafe (Lot# 2937FID101)
6 ml/5 gallons => 2.32 ppm

From what I’ve read in this thread, the recommended therapeutic level of coppersafe is 1.5-2 ppm. I used a dose of coppersafe that was slightly lower than the recommended dose on the bottle (6 vs 6.25 ml) and got a level 15% higher than the upper level of the therapeutic range. I’m really glad I didn’t dose Coppersafe and stuck with cupramine while I was waiting for my Hanna checker!

Edit: Is there a list of coppersafe lot #’s and results anywhere?

 

[HotRocks]

So just to add to the confusion with Coppersafe - I got around to dosing a 5 gallon bucket of DI water with cupramine and coppersafe to check the levels. Below are my results:

Cupramine
0.5ml/5 gallons => 0.32 ppm
1.5ml/5 gallons => 0.92 ppm

Coppersafe (Lot# 2937FID101)
6 ml/5 gallons => 2.32 ppm

From what I’ve read in this thread, the recommended therapeutic level of coppersafe is 1.5-2 ppm. I used a dose of coppersafe that was slightly lower than the recommended dose on the bottle (6 vs 6.25 ml) and got a level 15% higher than the upper level of the therapeutic range. I’m really glad I didn’t dose Coppersafe and stuck with cupramine while I was waiting for my Hanna checker!

Edit: Is there a list of coppersafe lot #’s and results anywhere?

It's definitely an issue. We were trying to compile a list like that. Problem is even bottles with the same batch number don't test consistently enough from bottle to bottle from the same batch to associate a baseline with a batch number. Best thing you can do is exactly what you did. Dose a set amount, then use that reading to figure up your own dosing instructions.

You now know what 1ml per gallon gets you. So just reduce accordingly by math to achieve desired level.

 

[Sleepydoc]

It's definitely an issue. We were trying to compile a list like that. Problem is even bottles with the same batch number don't test consistently enough from bottle to bottle from the same batch to associate a baseline with a batch number. Best thing you can do is exactly what you did. Dose a set amount, then use that reading to figure up your own dosing instructions.

You now know what 1ml per gallon gets you. So just reduce accordingly by math to achieve desired level.

This doesn't make sense. The only two explanations I can think of are that they didn't get the batch mixed completely, or there were issues in storage leading to degradation. Neither one of these seems very plausible, to be honest. Mixing isn't that difficult to achieve and one would think the manufacturing process would have been standardized long ago, and even if storage conditions were causing issues, the amount of elemental copper in the bottle wouldn't change.

 

[Hanna Instruments]

@SaltwaterAq has HI702 Copper Checkers in Stock!
https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/hanna-hi702-high-range-copper-checker-saltwater-hanna-instruments/

 

[Hanna Instruments]

@MarineDepot has HI702 Copper Checkers in stock!
https://www.marinedepot.com/Hanna_I...uariums-Hanna_Instruments-HN1702-FITE-vi.html

 

[mfinn]

@SaltwaterAq has HI702 Copper Checkers in Stock!
https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/hanna-hi702-high-range-copper-checker-saltwater-hanna-instruments/

How soon will you be shipping out orders from your own website?

 

[Hanna Instruments]

How soon will you be shipping out orders from your own website?

For specifics on orders from our website please contact [email protected] or call 401-765-7500.

 

[HotRocks]

This doesn't make sense. The only two explanations I can think of are that they didn't get the batch mixed completely, or there were issues in storage leading to degradation. Neither one of these seems very plausible, to be honest. Mixing isn't that difficult to achieve and one would think the manufacturing process would have been standardized long ago, and even if storage conditions were causing issues, the amount of elemental copper in the bottle wouldn't change.

I have my own opinions on this. To keep it short and simple I thing the Quality control department is lacking any structure at all and batch numbers are completely meaningless.

I have bottles personally that range from 2.5-3.0ppm. it's crazy. I can make my own copper sulfate Pentahydrate solution with a $20 scale from Amazon that was recommended by @Humblefish and net exact yeilds. I have never even done anything like that before, and nailed it. So I don't have any faith anymore in coppersafe. I will not use it. I also highly recommend anyone who does choose to use it only do so with a Hanna copper checker.

 

[mfinn]

For specifics on orders from our website please contact [email protected] or call 401-765-7500.

I did. I was told that even though vendors had a supply, they would not be filling orders placed until they got more in.

 

[HotRocks]

I did. I was told that even though vendors had a supply, they would not be filling orders placed until they got more in.

If you are in need of one quickly just cancel your Hanna order and order from one of the other vendors. Hanna will not be upset about that, they now recommend ordering from their sellers since its better for the hobbyist as these places offer free shipping with no minimum order!

 

[chicago]

Ok... My Hana arrrived.. Have been using Chemetrics which I like . Very easy to use. compared to the Checker all is good. I might have been over a bit looking at the chemetrics kit. i recently added 10 gallons of NO COPPER water to my 55 QT. That was about three days ago. The Chemetrics is easy to read to see if over 2.0.. problem is not so easy to see if over 2.5 ..
Today I did a test with the Hana and the Chemetrics. Here you go. By the way the second test i ran with the hana stated 2.03.. so there will be some margin for error. I use copper safe with no issues so far.

 

[wangspeed]

Anyone checked with the Hanna to see how much certain sand or rocks soak up copper? Or even carbon vs cuprasorb for intentional removal.

I have some Stax rocks in my QT and there doesn’t seem to be any appreciable loss of copper in the water. It’s Marco rock that has been cut on 2 sides and sometimes void filled.

I’m also half curious if half copper and half CP has a synergistic effect against some of the diseases we are fighting.

 

[HotRocks]

Anyone checked with the Hanna to see how much certain sand or rocks soak up copper? Or even carbon vs cuprasorb for intentional removal.

I have some Stax rocks in my QT and there doesn’t seem to be any appreciable loss of copper in the water. It’s Marco rock that has been cut on 2 sides and sometimes void filled.

I’m also half curious if half copper and half CP has a synergistic effect against some of the diseases we are fighting.

We know that Fiji pink (dry) does not absorb copper. Thanks @Humblefish

Haven't messed with rock at all.

Certain media will definitely absorb copper.

I always perform 100% WC when removing copper. Carbon definitely removes any remianing copper within 12-24hrs after that for me.

I'm not sure it would be advisable to mix CP and copper. If you can get RX CP there would be no benefit from adding copper. Plus if you only half dosed each, you wouldn't be therapuetic. I have no idea what other negative effects may come from combination of the two.

For someone who can easily get a RX for CP, copper would only be needed to treat species of fish that are known to not do well in CP.