Crypto wins the gamble- QT Journal

ngoodermuth

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I am a proponent for having a quarantine system in place for new fish. I proactively QT my fish. I know the risks involved when skirting some of the rules...but ultimately rolled the dice in a few cases while stocking this tank. I lost the gamble. And now my "parasite-free system" has...dun dun duuuun...ich. Cryptocaryon irritans.

Here were my mistakes, I know them and now I'm confessing them. Maybe I'll stop someone from making the same ones. Maybe not. But, at least my conscience is clear.

- I didn't QT corals/inverts while setting up this tank. I dipped all my corals and "rinsed" my clean-up crew. We all know the only way to ensure we aren't bringing parasites is a 76-day fishless QT. Doh!

- I didn't treat with prophylactic copper on my tang. He was in QT, got two prazi doses like everyone else and then was only observed for the remainder of his time. I never saw any signs of illness, but I'm aware that things can be suppressed and remain hidden for longer than most people QT.

-I ended QT of my wrasses a week early after an ammonia spike, however I think it's unlikely the ich came from them as they had completed TTM before that.

- And my biggest gamble, I bought a green mandarin and did not QT him. I'm about 90% sure this was the cause of the infestation.

So, regardless of where it came from it's here. Luckily, I have a plan. I have a few special considerations to make. It is possible I may lose a few fish in the process, but this is the best plan I could come up with. Feel free to critique as needed.

Important to note. I'm fairly certain based on my experience that I'm truly dealing with ich and not something more serious like velvet or brook. If that changes, so will this plan.

The mandarin. Obviously, I have to make some serious considerations for this guy. He has been doing well in the 120g but doesn't eat prepared foods. He's also likely an ich carrier, but doesn't appear effected by the parasites currently.

For him, I have a cycled 20g tank that has been sitting empty and is exploding with pods. I took every piece of live rock from my old 40g that I could jam in there and cleaned it up the best I could without hurting the pod population. This will be his home for most of the 76 day fallow period. My LFS stocks pods and I will continue to add them to the tank regularly so he has a sufficient food supply.

As long as this is successful and he appears healthy enough, he will undergo TTM at the end of the fallow period before going back into the DT. Hopefully, TTM will be enough to rid him of any ich he's harboring and he can survive the last 12 days of transfers with little to no food. @Humblefish I'd love your input on this.

Everyone else is going into the 40 breeder system that is being officially converted to a fish QT/hospital system. I'm running it bare bottom, took all live rock and critters out. And will be adding a large seeded sponge to the sump. Lots of PVC hiding holes and a couple of containers of sand for my two sand dwelling wrasses. I do have a skimmer that I will use after copper/antibiotic treatment is completed. The regal angel and canary wrasse that were here for QT will be getting treated with everyone else. Which is fine since they need it anyway. From now on everyone in my tank gets either copper or TTM. Done.

The tank will house:
Four wrasses, one tang, two clowns, and a regal angel. Obviously ammonia will be monitored very closely with all these fish.

The regal angel may not survive the fallow period or the copper treatment as it is still not readily eating prepared foods and I am removing all of the grazing opportunities. Unfortunately, I don't have another tank big enough for it so we are just going to hope for the best. Also, the flame wrasse might be an issue as he has shown copper sensitivity in the past. Again, I'm going to give it a try and hope for the best. If it appears to be too much for him I might just add him into the mandarin tank and TTM...though only as a last resort.

The fish have been exhibiting symptoms for several days now. Almost a week. They are all still eating and behaving normally, besides a little scratching and the tell-tale spots. No heavy breathing, light sensitivity, swimming into the flow, body coating or dusting appearance, etc. I've been feeding a combination of live foods, vitamin-soaked frozen foods, algae clips, and NLS pellets. They eat several times a day, but this may need to be scaled back a bit for water quality purposes in QT.

The two fairy wrasses have a couple, very small fin injuries that could be nipping or could be secondary infections from the parasites. For that reason, and as a preventative measure; all the fish will be getting a rally bath prior to moving to the QT. Once they are all moved, I will begin copper (cupramine) treatment as well as kanaplex to prevent/treat any infections. I plan on ensuring the O2 exchange is adequate to run both treatments at once.

The DT will run fallow for 76 days. Besides keeping the normal parameters in check, I will be adding seachem nitrogen to address the missing nitrates from having no fish. And feeding the corals/CUC. Once this is all said and done I WILL have a fish-less QT for corals and inverts.

I will post updates here as things progress. Hopefully, I can get through the next 80 or so days with minimal losses. The fish are symptomatic, but fortunately still appear healthy enough to withstand the treatment process so I'm going to stay positive [emoji108]Wish me luck! And crazy fish-trapping mojo so I don't have to tear into the display too badly to get them all out...
 
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ngoodermuth

ngoodermuth

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Best of luck! I hope they all make it through :)

Thanks, they are all pretty healthy otherwise so I'm feeling good about it. Ready to rip off the bandaid and start moving them over...[emoji37]
 

Maritimer

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Not fun ... but I admire both your honesty and your determination!!

Will be pulling for a 100% survival and recovery, and a positively _glorious_ display when it's all said & done.

Keep a magnifier handy beside your display. All the tiny creatures that your fish kept in check will be out in force during the fallow period, and can offer some interesting observation!

~Bruce
 

Humblefish

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@ngoodermuth I both admire & respect your honesty and determination. It takes a lot for someone to point out their own mistakes in detail like you did. ;)

About the mandy: 12 days without food would be pretty rough. Even if he technically survived it, he would be in bad shape (weak) by the time he got transferred into the 20gal. Also, I doubt a 20gal worth of pods would sustain him for the rest of the fallow period (60+ days).

So, I feel it is imperative that he eat some sort of supplemental food. Have you ever tried Nutramar ova (below)? That is what I feed to get all my mandarins thru QT.

1149.jpg
 
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ngoodermuth

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The mandarin's new digs are ready. The pods in this thing are insane, hopefully it gives him a little head-start. He basically just needs to survive until it's time for TTM.
05937318f49eb4303412c27c8df1bbbd.jpg

1ffb9618effa097c2130911ee8a4064d.jpg
 

Humblefish

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@Humblefish I wasn't going to do TTM until the end. I don't think he is in immediate danger from the ich. I think starving would be the bigger issue. I'll try to train him to eat SOMETHING in the 20g.

Ahhh, that's pretty smart thinking. ;Smuggrin But yeah, he will need to eat something other than pods whilst in the 20 gal.
 
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ngoodermuth

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Ahhh, that's pretty smart thinking. ;Smuggrin But yeah, he will need to eat something other than pods whilst in the 20 gal.

Just ordered the nutrimar ova, and I'm going to hatch some brine for him as well. Hopefully we can get him eating something. Still have to catch him though, I have a feeling he might be the toughest one...traps won't work if he's not interested in the bait :/
 
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ngoodermuth

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Caught the mandarin! Omg, this was hilarious. Was showing off the disco light on radions and noticed the mandarin went into a "trance" when the lights went nuts. Grabbed a net and scooped him right out! Of course, I video taped it [emoji13]
 

Brew12

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Caught the mandarin! Omg, this was hilarious. Was showing off the disco light on radions and noticed the mandarin went into a "trance" when the lights went nuts. Grabbed a net and scooped him right out! Of course, I video taped it [emoji13]

That was awesome!
 
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ngoodermuth

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You mentioned copper sensitivity which copper treatment do you employ?

I agree with @Humblefish and @Maritimer about your candor and resiliency, took me far too long to decide to QT. Best of luck in your endeavor.

Cupramine, it's what I'm most familiar with.
 

prsnlty

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@ngoodermuth I both admire & respect your honesty and determination. It takes a lot for someone to point out their own mistakes in detail like you did. ;)

About the mandy: 12 days without food would be pretty rough. Even if he technically survived it, he would be in bad shape (weak) by the time he got transferred into the 20gal. Also, I doubt a 20gal worth of pods would sustain him for the rest of the fallow period (60+ days).

So, I feel it is imperative that he eat some sort of supplemental food. Have you ever tried Nutramar ova (below)? That is what I feed to get all my mandarins thru QT.

1149.jpg
I have never hear of this food! I will have to find a supplier. This might help my tank through its current crisis, thanks :D
 

Brew12

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I have never hear of this food! I will have to find a supplier. This might help my tank through its current crisis, thanks :D
I believe it is a fancy name for prawn eggs.
 
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ngoodermuth

ngoodermuth

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I have never hear of this food! I will have to find a supplier. This might help my tank through its current crisis, thanks :D

Marine depot! $20 flat rate shipping so get a couple packs and maybe some rods food while you're at it [emoji12]
 

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