Crypto wins the gamble- QT Journal

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish If I decided to treat the entire group, would you still suggest a rally bath for the affected or would it be useless if I'm just putting them right back into the infected tank?

It would be better to transfer them into a "fresh" QT following the Rally bath, but acriflavine will still help halt the infection from spreading no matter what.

Of the choices you listed, I would go with either Furan-2 or Neoplex as the QT treatment antibiotic. I'm more familiar with Furan, but Strohmeyer claims neomycin can be mixed with the sulfa drugs (ex. API Triple Sulfa) if you wanted to try something radically different: http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#neomycin

 

[Humblefish]

Edit. I'm too slow in posting [emoji12]

I think we're just out of sync.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Ok, I'm going to do the trifecta to the whole QT. I was going to try to put together another QT for the wrasses this weekend but the rhomboid is getting worse. It's face is swelling and it's breathing heavily.

I just want to confirm, when using metro/kanaplex/furan-2 together I use the normal dosage every 48 hours (as opposed to dosing the furan-2 every 24 hours per the instructions) Is this correct?

Also, I want to pull the rhomboid and give him a rally bath. Is it worth the stress (to him, not me) of catching him at this point or should I just do the antibiotics and cross my fingers?

@Humblefish @melypr1985

 

[melypr1985]

I just want to confirm, when using metro/kanaplex/furan-2 together I use the normal dosage every 48 hours (as opposed to dosing the furan-2 every 24 hours per the instructions) Is this correct?

Correct, with a water change before redosing the meds.

Also, I want to pull the rhomboid and give him a rally bath. Is it worth the stress (to him, not me) of catching him at this point or should I just do the antibiotics and cross my fingers?

Rally baths are fairly mild so it wouldn't be too stressful on him. The catching of him would be more stressful than being exposed to the medication in a bath. If the infection is getting worse, then the rally bath is a good idea to halt it's progression.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ I agree with Meredith. Sorry you are having to deal with this nightmare.

 

[ngoodermuth]

^^ I agree with Meredith. Sorry you are having to deal with this nightmare.

Thanks, I'm definitely getting my QT practice in :/ I hope he pulls through, the rhomboid is one of my favorites.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks, I'm definitely getting my QT practice in :/ I hope he pulls through, the rhomboid is one of my favorites.

You're doing outstanding, both with your QTs and here on the forum. We really appreciate the time you've been putting in helping others with their fish disease questions.

 

[ngoodermuth]

You're doing outstanding, both with your QTs and here on the forum. We really appreciate the time you've been putting in helping others with their fish disease questions.

Aw, thanks! The team on this forum have been such a great resource for me, I'm happy to try to help where I can. I know all too well what it's like to be on the other side of things, in full panic mode [emoji33]

 

[ngoodermuth]

Well, the rhomboid is still here this morning. His face is still swollen and he's still breathing a little fast, but I dare say he looks a little better than last night.

I dosed the Furan-2 and metro. The kanaplex I had left was a little short of a full dose, but I have more on the way. I'll have enough for a full dose before the next water change. Did a 75 minute rally bath last night- would have done 90, but sleep [emoji42]

 

[4FordFamily]

Well, the rhomboid is still here this morning. His face is still swollen and he's still breathing a little fast, but I dare say he looks a little better than last night.

I dosed the Furan-2 and metro. The kanaplex I had left was a little short of a full dose, but I have more on the way. I'll have enough for a full dose before the next water change. Did a 75 minute rally bath last night- would have done 90, but sleep [emoji42]

Glad it's at least not worse! Good luck and keep using posted!!!

 

[ngoodermuth]

He's not eating now, ugh. Not even live black worms. The flame is doing well though, he ate the rhomboid's portion and his own [emoji15]

Just curious, @Humblefish if you were treating a gram negative would you use this same treatment plan? Given the severity of the infection in the rhomboid and how it's sticking around I'm starting to think that might be what I'm dealing with. I've been feeding live worms, fresh clams, pe mysis and other quality frozen foods soaked in vita-chem since I got these fish. I feel like their immune systems should have been fairly good before all this started to be struggling like I am to keep them healthy...

Also, the possibility that I miss-diagnosed and it was velvet vs. crypto to begin with. I did think the spots were a little smaller than typical Ich...but they weren't ever "covered" and were never reclusive or swimming into flow, etc. Just a few small white spots per fish.

 

[Humblefish]

@ngoodermuth When fighting a gram negative bacterial infection, this is the best protocol I've come up with so far:

• 90 min acriflavine bath (for temporary relief/to halt the spread of the infection)
• Dose the QT for 10 days (14 days might be better in some cases) with one of the following:

1. Kanaplex + Metroplex + Furan-2 combo
2. Nitrofuracin Green Powder

#1 is my old standby, but I saw some amazing results using NFG before my testing got interrupted. I can't wait to get back to it in just a couple of months.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Ok, good to know. Also, if this is a gram negative infection and the fish had it in the DT (where the flame first had the white scales and the disappearing tail trick started) will it still be lurking in the DT after the fallow period? :/

 

[Humblefish]

Ok, good to know. Also, if this is a gram negative infection and the fish had it in the DT (where the flame first had the white scales and the disappearing tail trick started) will it still be lurking in the DT after the fallow period? :/

By 76 days it will have died out.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I think the rhomboid may have an abscess...the swelling is starting to look like a build-up of fluid. I'm pretty sure he's not eating because he's uncomfortable...it just stinks that there's not much more I can do at this point. He's not skinny and still swimming/active, so I'm crossing my fingers it will start to get better with the antibiotics and he will eat again once it starts to heal.

 

[Humblefish]

I think the rhomboid may have an abscess...the swelling is starting to look like a build-up of fluid. I'm pretty sure he's not eating because he's uncomfortable...it just stinks that there's not much more I can do at this point. He's not skinny and still swimming/active, so I'm crossing my fingers it will start to get better with the antibiotics and he will eat again once it starts to heal.

Sorry sometimes that's all I can think to say

 

[melypr1985]

I think the rhomboid may have an abscess...the swelling is starting to look like a build-up of fluid. I'm pretty sure he's not eating because he's uncomfortable...it just stinks that there's not much more I can do at this point. He's not skinny and still swimming/active, so I'm crossing my fingers it will start to get better with the antibiotics and he will eat again once it starts to heal.

I'll hope for the best

 

[4FordFamily]

I'll hope for the best

X3... also regarding velvet, wrasse rarely become coated in velvet for whatever reason -- you'll see spots but not like you see on fish with lesser slime coats. I hypothesize that the gills are afflicted fatally long before they become coated in velvet spots due to the sleeping habits and thick slime coat of wrasses.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Yea, I'm thinking it could have been velvet and either a weaker strain or my fish are just doing a good job at keeping it at bay. Even the tang was never covered, none ever looked to be struggling, all still eating and breathing normally in the DT. I've experienced velvet before, and it was much more severe than this. Even on the wrasses I had at the time. I'm counting my stars this time if that's the case.

Little update, rhomboid is still hanging in there. I think the swelling looks like it's starting to go down a tiny bit, but it's still interfering with it being able to eat. He's chasing worms but not actually able to eat them. Poor thing.

I did a water change and redosed all three meds last night, so we will see. I tried to get a picture of the swelling, but for a sick fish he's still pretty quick.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Rhomboid watch: Well, he's eaten two bloodworms today. I guess that's better than nothing. Swelling is still severe, I got a few better pictures. Do you think there is anything I can do to help the swelling? Another rally bath, Epsom salts?

Doing a water change now, and re-dosing the three meds.