Crystal clear water without carbon

[Robink]

Thanks for sharing !
What about your water tests ?

Perfect as always.
Calc 420
Alk 8.4
Mag 1520
ph 8.15-8.28
Ammonia 0
Nitrite o
Nitrates 2
Phosphate 0

 

[Robink]

Cell pic just now.

 

[Monkeytank]

It’s not because the different view and not about difference of view.
Follow the messages.
I’m writing about crystal clear water, not about (doubts) “my method” to reduce amonia, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate.
I described the combination I did, not only purigen. But the main discussion was purigen.
I’m writing about my results and what kind of evidence do you guys need ? Aren’t results (water clarity and tests) evidences ?
And to enjoy this hobby, do we need to be a scientist ?
All amazon reviewers are lying ?
Replying your question, what makes purigen less expensive? Again, I’m not writing about only purigen. Your asnwer I already wrote in my first post.
If someone don’t agree or beleive, it’s up to anyone here.
I’m not writing fantasies, my results are real.
If I can help anoyone here, I’m glad. If I can’t, I won’t try to contribute.
I’m new in this forum but not in this hobby.

Robert, I think you missed what blkhwkz was trying to say. Randy is pretty much THE guy to go to for accurate information, and so many of us have benefited greatly from him sharing his experience through articles and posts. He is the expert, hands down, in this area with the scientific background to back it up over and over and over again. We don't need to be scientists to enjoy this hobby, but there are thousands of us who are more successful because Randy is a scientist and he shares his wealth of knowledge, not just on this forum, but on many forums, magazines, and outlets. From his LinkedIn page: "Experienced leader of drug discovery and development. Expertise in therapeutic polymers, biomaterials, and drug delivery. Background includes a PhD in Chemistry, successful startup company experience and big biotechnology firms. Co-inventor of 3 approved pharmaceuticals, 76 issued US patents, and 32 journal publications". You know, a Harvard PHD working with NASA and stuff, and he shares his expertise with us for free on these forums.

I happen to be a scientist too, but would never catch up with Randy's knowledge of reef water chemistry.

You are barking up the wrong tree with your approach to the discussion with him. Being dismissive of Randy's input after trying a couple of items and looking at your tank isn't wise. It's great you are sharing your experiences, and willing to help, but there is no way you are going to catch up to the amount of help Randy has provided thousands of us. You might want to do some research. Here is a link to a whole treasure trove of info including a link to about 30 of his articles for Reefkeeping Magazine https://www.google.com/search?q=randy+holmes+farley&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8.

 

[MnFish1]

@Roberto Yoneda - Why don't you answer questions about your method? What information do you have that purigen is less expensive than Carbon - especially considering the bleach, chrloine neutralizer, etc needed to recharge the pack? Im only asking since you say this method is 'better' and 'cheaper' - can you back up what you're saying? I know I can buy high quality Carbon for less than the $42 you spent. I dont have any problem with Nitrate, my water is clear. Also - Contrary to one of your posts - Carbon is excellent at removing organic waste. And just another comment - you don't have to be a scientist to have an aquarium - but when you are talking to someone (Randy) who knows what he is doing and is just trying to give a balanced and correct response to your post, well - it did sound a little offensive.

 

[Broadfield]

In two tanks I’m using felt filter socks. I already got felt 200 micron socks and I’ll replace the socks next week.
In the hospital AIO tank, a very thick sponge in the first chamber.
I hope I could help you.

I was more so asking because maybe you could run a 100 micron felt and do away with the carbon or Purigen all together. I run 100 micron felt, skimmer and GFO only... my tank is insanely clear. I do not dose any sort of carbon source or any other type of chemical waste remover. My tank is so clear that most think it's fake when they see an image of it or in person lol.

 

[RyanCSGO]

I was more so asking because maybe you could run a 100 micron felt and do away with the carbon or Purigen all together. I run 100 micron felt, skimmer and GFO only... my tank is insanely clear. I do not dose any sort of carbon source or any other type of chemical waste remover. My tank is so clear that most think it's fake when they see an image of it or in person lol.

...and there i go ordering 100 micron filter socks

 

[Kayvon]

I was more so asking because maybe you could run a 100 micron felt and do away with the carbon or Purigen all together. I run 100 micron felt, skimmer and GFO only... my tank is insanely clear. I do not dose any sort of carbon source or any other type of chemical waste remover. My tank is so clear that most think it's fake when they see an image of it or in person lol.

What do 100 micron socks do about your pod population?

 

[atoll]

IME yellowing of the water is often a problem or at least a slight cloudiness taking the sparkle off the water that just about any pre-filter I know can deal with. Ozone or carbon will clear it, however, I use Oxydators. sorted

 

[cmcoker]

Careful with the regeneration of purigen. I know if at least one person who nuked their tank doing that, office tank at my job.l, followed the directions but something went wrong.
Afterwards, he said he should not have tried to save a few dollars on another bag of purigen.
I've read of a few others online with similar experiences, as well.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

Robert, I think you missed what blkhwkz was trying to say. Randy is pretty much THE guy to go to for accurate information, and so many of us have benefited greatly from him sharing his experience through articles and posts. He is the expert, hands down, in this area with the scientific background to back it up over and over and over again. We don't need to be scientists to enjoy this hobby, but there are thousands of us who are more successful because Randy is a scientist and he shares his wealth of knowledge, not just on this forum, but on many forums, magazines, and outlets. From his LinkedIn page: "Experienced leader of drug discovery and development. Expertise in therapeutic polymers, biomaterials, and drug delivery. Background includes a PhD in Chemistry, successful startup company experience and big biotechnology firms. Co-inventor of 3 approved pharmaceuticals, 76 issued US patents, and 32 journal publications". You know, a Harvard PHD working with NASA and stuff, and he shares his expertise with us for free on these forums.

I happen to be a scientist too, but would never catch up with Randy's knowledge of reef water chemistry.

You are barking up the wrong tree with your approach to the discussion with him. Being dismissive of Randy's input after trying a couple of items and looking at your tank isn't wise. It's great you are sharing your experiences, and willing to help, but there is no way you are going to catch up to the amount of help Randy has provided thousands of us. You might want to do some research. Here is a link to a whole treasure trove of info including a link to about 30 of his articles for Reefkeeping Magazine https://www.google.com/search?q=randy+holmes+farley&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8.

Hi moneytank !
Thanks for your message and advices.
I think your message was the first one I received in this forum that I didn’t feel somebody throwing rocks to me.
Any real and good contribution, good and bad experiences are welcome for me because it’s not an easy and cheap hobby.
Lucky fellow reefers with THE GUY here to help us sharing his knowledge.
But I think it’s not fair and not polite to belittle people in your posts and reviews.
I think as humans, we need to improve ourselves, as with more knowledge as with relationships, in the real and virtual world.
In the virtual world, when we don’t know each other in person, I try to be very carefull with my words because I don’t know how the other side will take my message.
But I’ll try to keep my mouth closed and been a quiet viewer because I don’t have too much to help.
Once again, I really appreciate your message.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

Careful with the regeneration of purigen. I know if at least one person who nuked their tank doing that, office tank at my job.l, followed the directions but something went wrong.
Afterwards, he said he should not have tried to save a few dollars on another bag of purigen.
I've read of a few others online with similar experiences, as well.

Thanks for the advice. I’ll try doing that in one of my small tanks and check it out the water test results.

 

[Shaun Sweeney]

Ok ... that was pretty circular.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

I would say a pristine super clear water with perfectly no nitrate and phosphate is not suitable for reef tank. I don't have skimmer, i dumped ONE kilogram of cheap (USD2.50 per kg) activated carbon in the sump, stir my sump every midnight with powerhead for 6 hours and my tank is happy. My water is clean but super fine particulates (detritus mixed with whatever microbs growing naturally in the tank) is all over the water column to feed corals and other filter feeders. For FOWLR, crystal clear water is fine.

Please do not treat this message as offensive, but there are a few ways to scrubs tank water clean. Super fine filter socks, combined with skimmer and GAC is one of the method I used before. Some bacteria additives are very good as well. But frankly speaking, you do not want a sparkling clean water to keep reef tank happy without the additions of foods that has been removed in the first place.

 

[SciGuy2]

sciense!​

 

[Monkeytank]

Hi moneytank !
Thanks for your message and advices.
I think your message was the first one I received in this forum that I didn’t feel somebody throwing rocks to me.
Any real and good contribution, good and bad experiences are welcome for me because it’s not an easy and cheap hobby.
Lucky fellow reefers with THE GUY here to help us sharing his knowledge.
But I think it’s not fair and not polite to belittle people in your posts and reviews.
I think as humans, we need to improve ourselves, as with more knowledge as with relationships, in the real and virtual world.
In the virtual world, when we don’t know each other in person, I try to be very carefull with my words because I don’t know how the other side will take my message.
But I’ll try to keep my mouth closed and been a quiet viewer because I don’t have too much to help.
Once again, I really appreciate your message.

Hey Robert, I'm glad you took my post the way it was intended. I hope you don't keep your mouth closed, because every observation is helpful! I was trying to help diffuse things a little. I was sensing the potential for blood in the water!

 

[Cory]

Fwiw rox . 8 blows away the purigen ive used. Rox works very good.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

As many times I got valuable information from this forum, I want to share my new experiences to pursuit the most crystal and clear water I can.
I have three tanks:
- one AIO hospital tank running for 4 months. It has 20 gal, Tunze DOC 9001 skimmer, one box of Marine Pure biomedia balls. No sump, no refugium. The tank has 7 green chromis, one yellow tang, one powder blue tang and one emperor angel. The fishes are in this tank for 2 and half months.
- another tank with 15 gal running for one month as a quarentine tank with Icecap RS 15 sump and Skimz SM163 skimmer. No biomedia and no refugium. The tank has four clowfishes and two anthias I got last friday. Since last week I started to run an Aquamaxx TS-2 sulfur reactor.
- main display with 125 gal, 20 gal sump with refugium, one box of Marine Pure biomedia balls, Pukani and Reef Safe rocks from BRS and Vertex Omega 180i skimmer. No fishes yet because it’s a new tank (first week).
In all three tanks I’m not using carbon/GFO.
In a two little fishes 150 reactor, I’m running Seachem Purigen (in a media bag) with Seachem Matrix with a 400 gph pump. In low flow areas, I put a media bag with Seachem de*nitrate.
I spent $42 with all the three stuffs above and got all from amazon. The three stuffs quantity are enough for my 3 tanks.
The results I’m getting are very impressive. I never saw my tanks with a prestine crystal clear water as I’m seeing now.
And the water tests are perfect: no amonia, no nitrate, no nitrite and no phosphate. And I feed the fishes 3 times a day !
I’m trying these three stuffs because I always thought carbon as a waste of money and I started to research new stuffs. When we have some trouble with the tank water, the carbon can’t help us to reduce amonia, nitrite, nitrate or phosphate. Another “issue” is the life spam. After no more than one month (in avarage), carbon needs to be replaced. The only situation that I think to use carbon is when I need to remove medication from the tank water.
Another thing I noticed is that all skimmers are working “less”.
Seachem Purigen is a regenerative stuff with bleach. After six months (in avarage), I’ll need to soak Purigen in bleach and in two days, they are good to go again. De*nitrate and Matrix don’t need to be replaced or regenerated.
The first tank I used the 3 stuffs combination was the hospital tank and it’s running all the three stuffs for 2 months. Now I’m using the three stuffs in all my three tanks with very impressive results.
Sharing my experiences, I hope to help another fellow reefers to get crystal clear and prestine water and saving money and time to enjoy the hobby.

I think that what people are saying including Randy is that you will need to see where your tank is a year from now and then three years from now. Purigen is just one way to deal with organics and various organics build up over time. I have tried Purigen and after not having enough prime left to neutralize the bleach even though it was rinsed multiple times and air dried for 3 days it still had enough residue to kill one of my fish. All three of those Seachem products have been around for years and many people use them separately and in various combinations. My tank is 4 years old but I did move it two years ago with the same rock and water. Currently I don't use filter socks except when blowing the rocks off, don't do water changes, don't have a clean up crew. I have an oversized skimmer and an Algae scrubber these are my only export methods except I use about two cups of Rox 0.8 carbon every 2-3 months. This is on a 300 gallon system I feed 4 times a day with pellet, nori, flake and frozen foods. I do have lots of live rock in my display and run bare bottom. I am actually working to bring my nitrates and phosphates up as they have been at zero for the last 2 months. As to water clarity looking from end to end that is six feet of water there is no color or cloudiness. It is almost like the fish float in air. I have a lot of respect for what Randy gives to this forum and to the Hobby. He will and has stated on many occasions that Purigen is a good product but has not seen where it is better than a good carbon and that there might be a benefit to using both. A chemist will want proven facts that can be measured to say that one is better or cheaper in the long run. Most people will tell you that your tank is not mature until you have had it running stable for 12 months.

 

[TbyZ]

No problem Randy, you don’t need to agree with my assertions, we are in a free country.
And non offensive comments are very welcome.
This is a forum and I think one of the forum purposes are to share good and bad experiences.
As I wrote, I’m using Purigen combined with de*nitrate and matrix, so I’m describing my great results using the three products combined, not only purigen.
I have evidences of my great results in my three tanks. You don’t need to agree or beleive, it’s up to you.
Are there better ways to get crystal clear water ? Cheaper or not, easier or not, I beleive there are many methods to get crystal clear water. If you allow me, I just want to share my experience and try to contribute with another fellow reefers.
And as a scientist, you could try the experience before criticizing threads and posts, specially from new reefers.
I hope I don’t need to reply your offensive messages again. You made my experience in this forum very unpleasant because you don’t have evidences of the three products combined and sent me offensive messages.

I reckon Randy should be banned from this forum. What, with all his LOLs n stuff, & his unhelpful time wasting.

And don't get me started on his points of view!

 

[Ranjib]

I am very skeptical about the premise. Remember both purigen and GAC can be regenerated, but unless you are operating at certain volume both of them will not make much sense. Above a certain volume, GAC will always outcompete purigen (GAC is multiple industry-wide popular for the exact reason, and in all those use cases, you can replace with resins/purigen like binding agents but at higher cost, unless you have certain advantages due, like better supply chain for purigen, I am fairly sure it will always be more expensive). Lastly, I'll echo Randy's assessment that given a certain amount of debris (odor, color) GAC will give a better effect than purigen . One thing I might see is that purigen might be required in less volume/space (so may be preferable in small setups where space is an issue... )
The most popular (and I'll say for all the right reason) way to use GAC followed by purigen for chemical filtration, GAC takes the 80% of bad stuff, the last possible 20% is taken out by purigen... Example: A popular combo for filtration in biocube 29G (i think its the Honda CRV of nano reefs) is to go with Filter floss + Chemi pure (GAC) + Purigen

I do kinda agree that it will be nice to setup a control experiment where we have a fixed amount of debri in the water and then run it through different combination of GAC, Purigen and GAC+Purigen and see how it performs...

 

[Ranjib]

I forgot to mention in the first post is that a good source of information might be to look at the Chemipure (only GAC), Chemipure Elite (GAC+GFO), Chemipure Blue (GAC+GFO+Something similar to purigen) development,... Boyd the company which produces this has a stellar record and these products were developed over time as improvement over their predecessors... and as they applied the filtration techniques across different industries. .. They also provide very good technical information around the effectivenes of each of these compounds, the same is reflected by their relative ratios in each product group