Current Quarantine Protocol

alabella1

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Tough to say, tang compatibility is just not set in stone, too much individualism in each case. The argument can be made to add the most docile first and then the more territorial. The counter argument is to add them all at once so that no fish has an established territory….
Jay
Nothing in reefing is an exact science is probably the second biggest thing I've learned after the solution to pollution. I was targeting adding the 3 at once, but my concern is the impact on the bioload of adding these 3 big suckers all at once to my almost 3 month old 155 gal tank which is currently FOWLR. I'm going to wait a couple more months probably until I move over the corals.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Nothing in reefing is an exact science is probably the second biggest thing I've learned after the solution to pollution. I was targeting adding the 3 at once, but my concern is the impact on the bioload of adding these 3 big suckers all at once to my almost 3 month old 155 gal tank which is currently FOWLR. I'm going to wait a couple more months probably until I move over the corals.

I don't think the increase in bioload will be an issue if the tank has corals in it (their bases help as a site for bacteria). Just be sure the corals aren't coming from a tank that has fish in it that could be carrying diseases, that would defeat the entire benefit of getting long term, healthy tangs.

Jay
 

alabella1

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I don't think the increase in bioload will be an issue if the tank has corals in it (their bases help as a site for bacteria). Just be sure the corals aren't coming from a tank that has fish in it that could be carrying diseases, that would defeat the entire benefit of getting long term, healthy tangs.

Jay
The tank with fish does NOT have corals yet. Just 2" sand and 3 rock structures I built. The corals are still sitting Fallow in the old tank since i had the infection roll in that took out almost all my fish. It's been fallow since May 21st. I'm taking extra care to make sure the new tank is 100% stable and dialed in before moving the corals over. Also, I've been lights out and planned on remaining lights out for 4 months per a BRS investigation.
 
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This might be a dumb question but how does a 30 day treatment of copper in QT get rid of ich when 78 days is required in the MT? Couldn’t it continue to live in the QT after the copper is removed in 30 days?

also, is it fine to use water from the MT, then add copper to 2.5ppm for water changes in the QT tank?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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This might be a dumb question but how does a 30 day treatment of copper in QT get rid of ich when 78 days is required in the MT? Couldn’t it continue to live in the QT after the copper is removed in 30 days?

also, is it fine to use water from the MT, then add copper to 2.5ppm for water changes in the QT tank?

That isn't a dumb question at all! Copper has little effect on the tomont resting phase. However, it does work - mostly because the "76 day" resting period is actually an artifact of a poorly done study, many years ago and is not born out in real world cases. That combined with the copper having some reduction on the tomonts, makes the 30 day treatment pretty effective. Also, our process also has the prazi period and the observation phase which helps catch any "rebound" cases.

That said, while setting up a quarantine tank using water from an infected tank is fine (since you are moving untreated fish at that same time) adding water during the treatment period itself, even if pre-dosed with copper is much like adding a new fish, and that resets the quarantine clock so to speak. If your DT is "clean" then there is no issue doing that though.

Jay
 
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Gildo

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@Jay Hemdal
Hello everybody
I have read all 21 pages! very interesting!
I live in europe, and am trying to procure everything to start with the quarantine processes.
- I found coppersafe, which seems to me to be the recommended copper-based product,
- Praziquantel: I found a "sera" branded product called "Tremazol" which has Praziquantel 74.7 mg x ml as the active ingredient. Is it okay? and if so at what dose?
- 37% formalin I already have at home for other purposes, will I need it for the fish I want to buy?

I'll start by buying the following fish: clownfish, blennies, foxface, surgeonfish, I have a 5 gallon QT so maybe I'll just start with 2 clownfish and the blennies while the others one at a time.
the choice of such a small QT, it is not to do tests, I prepare the copper base solution with the correct proportions (Mathematics should not be an opinion) in such a quantity as to have it for about ten changes and then every 3 days about empty and I fill the QT without having to worry about nitrate nitrates or low copper. Do you think it will work?
for shrimps, snails, crabs, etc., how do you behave?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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@Jay Hemdal
Hello everybody
I have read all 21 pages! very interesting!
I live in europe, and am trying to procure everything to start with the quarantine processes.
- I found coppersafe, which seems to me to be the recommended copper-based product,
- Praziquantel: I found a "sera" branded product called "Tremazol" which has Praziquantel 74.7 mg x ml as the active ingredient. Is it okay? and if so at what dose?
- 37% formalin I already have at home for other purposes, will I need it for the fish I want to buy?

I'll start by buying the following fish: clownfish, blennies, foxface, surgeonfish, I have a 5 gallon QT so maybe I'll just start with 2 clownfish and the blennies while the others one at a time.
the choice of such a small QT, it is not to do tests, I prepare the copper base solution with the correct proportions (Mathematics should not be an opinion) in such a quantity as to have it for about ten changes and then every 3 days about empty and I fill the QT without having to worry about nitrate nitrates or low copper. Do you think it will work?
for shrimps, snails, crabs, etc., how do you behave?
Hi, I prefer to use a quarantine tank of at least 10 gallons for the smaller fish or a 20 gallon tank if you want to quarantine them in one group. The tank must have an operating biofilter. I use a sponge filter or other filter media from a well established tank.
Yes - you can dose coppersafe by very carefully mixing the exact amount of copper in the correct amount of seawater - 5mls in 4 US gallons.
You shouldn’t need formalin unless the clownfish develop Brooklnella.
For invertebrates, if they came from a tank with unquarantined fish, I hold them in a fishless system for 30 to 45 days.
Jay
 

Gildo

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Hi, I prefer to use a quarantine tank of at least 10 gallons for the smaller fish or a 20 gallon tank if you want to quarantine them in one group. The tank must have an operating biofilter. I use a sponge filter or other filter media from a well established tank.
Yes - you can dose coppersafe by very carefully mixing the exact amount of copper in the correct amount of seawater - 5mls in 4 US gallons.
You shouldn’t need formalin unless the clownfish develop Brooklnella.
For invertebrates, if they came from a tank with unquarantined fish, I hold them in a fishless system for 30 to 45 days.
Jay
Thanks for the reply! @Jay Hemdal I will follow your advice, I immediately get a bigger QT and filter with cycled sponges.

On the other hand, is the medicine I found here in Europe instead of prazipro okay?
- Praziquantel: I found a "sera" branded product called "Tremazol" which has Praziquantel 74.7 mg x ml as the active ingredient. Is it okay? and if so at what dose?
Thanks for the reply! I will follow your advice, I immediately get a bigger QT and filter with cycled sponges.
On the other hand, is the medicine I found here in Europe instead of prazipro okay?

for clown fish I ask, they should be farmed so I should be calm and no formalin!
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Thanks for the reply! @Jay Hemdal I will follow your advice, I immediately get a bigger QT and filter with cycled sponges.

On the other hand, is the medicine I found here in Europe instead of prazipro okay?
- Praziquantel: I found a "sera" branded product called "Tremazol" which has Praziquantel 74.7 mg x ml as the active ingredient. Is it okay? and if so at what dose?
Thanks for the reply! I will follow your advice, I immediately get a bigger QT and filter with cycled sponges.
On the other hand, is the medicine I found here in Europe instead of prazipro okay?

for clown fish I ask, they should be farmed so I should be calm and no formalin!

Sorry, I've never used the Sera product. I looked up their instructions, but the values did not work out for me. You want to dose praziquantel at 2.2 to 2.5 mg/l. Note - it contains 7.467 grams per 100ml, so 0.0715 mg/ml. They say that treats 4 US gallons. In my dose, I would use 0.037 mg of praziquantel, so about half their dose. Prazi can be overdosed but you start to see cloudy water and low oxygen issues when you do that.

The rest of their instructions regarding redosing, etc. looked very good.

Yes, it is pretty rare to see Brooklynella in farmed clownfish unless the dealer had them in a tank with wild clowns at some point.

Jay
 
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Jay Hemdal

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I can only buy copper sulfate analytically pure, anhydrous copper sulfate

Can I use it safely?
Not without much difficulty. I'm used to using copper pentahydrate, so you would need to know how to convert for the anhydrous form. Then, you need critic acid to help keep the copper in solution. Finally, this ionic copper is much more toxic than the amine-based copper products we now use. If you want to try it, I dug up my old formulary and found my recipe (from 20+ years ago!). It actually contains the value for anhydrous copper - Mix 1.36 grams of CuSO4 and 0.91 grams of citric acid into 100 ml of distilled water. Each milliliter of this stock solution will treat about 7 US gallons. However, you need to have an accurate low range copper test and you need to ramp up the copper slowly over two days. The copper will adsorb onto surfaces as you add it, so the dose will drop, requiring daily testing and redosing.
After all that, some fish will react poorly to this medication.

In the end, If I could not find amine based copper medications like coppersafe or copper power, I would opt for a 35 day hyposalinity treatment.


Jay
 

xxxenmsy

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Not without much difficulty. I'm used to using copper pentahydrate, so you would need to know how to convert for the anhydrous form. Then, you need critic acid to help keep the copper in solution. Finally, this ionic copper is much more toxic than the amine-based copper products we now use. If you want to try it, I dug up my old formulary and found my recipe (from 20+ years ago!). It actually contains the value for anhydrous copper - Mix 1.36 grams of CuSO4 and 0.91 grams of citric acid into 100 ml of distilled water. Each milliliter of this stock solution will treat about 7 US gallons. However, you need to have an accurate low range copper test and you need to ramp up the copper slowly over two days. The copper will adsorb onto surfaces as you add it, so the dose will drop, requiring daily testing and redosing.
After all that, some fish will react poorly to this medication.

In the end, If I could not find amine based copper medications like coppersafe or copper power, I would opt for a 35 day hyposalinity treatment.


Jay
Thank you. I plan to carry out 35 day hygiene treatment like you
 

DrMMI

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My fish will be done with copper and general cure in 2 weeks, but I'm waiting to put my tangs back into the display until my other batch of fish are done quarantining so I can introduce them all at the same time. Any harm in leaving the fish in the same tank that they were medicated in? I plan on doing a big water change after the last dose of general cure to get the remaining medication out.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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My fish will be done with copper and general cure in 2 weeks, but I'm waiting to put my tangs back into the display until my other batch of fish are done quarantining so I can introduce them all at the same time. Any harm in leaving the fish in the same tank that they were medicated in? I plan on doing a big water change after the last dose of general cure to get the remaining medication out.
I don’t see any problem with that. I routinely hold fish in a QT after treatments are done, to grow them larger, wait for a DT to open, etc.
Jay
 

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Hello everybody
my quarantine tank is almost ready, coppersafe and praziquel arrived, only the fish are missing. question: I am observing some wild clowns in the shop, they seem healthy and I am there as much as I have been able to see for at least 3 weeks, certainly more, this weather can make me feel comfortable regarding insidious diseases such as Brooklynella or others? or in any case it depends on luck and they could still manifest themselves, and the "apparent" state of health for a month in the tank of the shop is not indicative for the most insidious diseases?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Hello everybody
my quarantine tank is almost ready, coppersafe and praziquel arrived, only the fish are missing. question: I am observing some wild clowns in the shop, they seem healthy and I am there as much as I have been able to see for at least 3 weeks, certainly more, this weather can make me feel comfortable regarding insidious diseases such as Brooklynella or others? or in any case it depends on luck and they could still manifest themselves, and the "apparent" state of health for a month in the tank of the shop is not indicative for the most insidious diseases?
What species of clown? I stopped getting wild ocellaris or percula clowns due to issues with Brooklynella. The one thing our quarantine doesn’t handle well is Brook. That was a conscious decision as the process is already quite complicated and Brook is rare unless you get poor quality wild clowns of those two species.
Jay
 
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Gildo

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Che specie di clown? Ho smesso di ricevere ocellaris selvaggi o clown percula a causa di problemi con Brooklynella. L'unica cosa che la nostra quarantena non gestisce bene è Brook. È stata una decisione consapevole poiché il processo è già piuttosto complicato e Brook è raro a meno che non si ottengano pagliacci selvaggi di scarsa qualità di queste due specie.
Jay
ocellaris, of those with particular colors more on white.
so a month of observation is not enough to exclude brook? is it a pathology that can appear later?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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ocellaris, of those with particular colors more on white.
so a month of observation is not enough to exclude brook? is it a pathology that can appear later?
I don't know exactly how long Brooklynella can fester in wild caught clowns before breaking into an infection. Certainly marine ich can hang on for months before becoming an active infection. Brooklynella has direct development with no resting phase, so it should be a shorter time,. but I would still treat the fish for velvet/ich and flukes. That puts you are 45 days, and that should be long enough to screen for brook.

Jay
 

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