Current Quarantine Protocol

[Gildo]

Grazie @Jay Hemdal

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

How strict is the no sand or rock rule? If I make it a permanent ficture is it okay? I feel bad for my blenny. I only have ocean direct live sand to put in a saucer, i am sure that's not non absorbing

I have some never used marco reef saver rock

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How strict is the no sand or rock rule? If I make it a permanent ficture is it okay? I feel bad for my blenny. I only have ocean direct live sand to put in a saucer, i am sure that's not non absorbing

I have some never used marco reef saver rock

Substrate can pull copper out of the water two ways: absorption (into carbonate rocks) and adsorption onto any surface really. Coppersafe and Copper Power are removed more slowly than ionic copper is. With a good test kit, you should be able to test and redose and keep your levels up. You may need to test daily at first, but after time, weekly should suffice. Of course, then never use that rock/sand in tanks with invertebrates.

Jay

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Substrate can pull copper out of the water two ways: absorption (into carbonate rocks) and adsorption onto any surface really. Coppersafe and Copper Power are removed more slowly than ionic copper is. With a good test kit, you should be able to test and redose and keep your levels up. You may need to test daily at first, but after time, weekly should suffice. Of course, then never use that rock/sand in tanks with invertebrates.

Jay

Thank you! I went ahead and added a dish of ocean direct and 2 rubble of marcos with some diatoms on it. Got 4 hannah copper reagents left, going to order some more.

 

[Gildo]

when you talk about hanna checker, do you mean High Scale Copper - HI702 or Low Scale Copper HI747 ???

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Somebody at Hanna told a R2R member that the LR model is not effective in salt water. I read the spec sheets on both models, and it wasn’t clear to me. In any event, for coppersafe or copper power, you need the HR model.
Jay

 

[Danielsj]

when you talk about hanna checker, do you mean High Scale Copper - HI702 or Low Scale Copper HI747 ???

Hi Gildo where did you get your Copper power and prazipro from in Europe? Im struggling to find somewhere to buy it.

 

[Gildo]

Hi Gildo where did you get your Copper power and prazipro from in Europe? Im struggling to find somewhere to buy it.

Cooperpower: kudakuda.it
Praziquantel: brand sera, name: tremazol. I Find it on Zoomalia. Se the different dosage on jay post up

 

[Gildo]

Hi
day 25 of quarantine with coppersafe... the blenny died.... just today! I didn't see him eating he was almost always hidden, but every now and then I'd see him walking around. i used a stupid colorimetric test.... the day before yesterday i got the hanna one... today i saw the dead blenny i tried the hanna and i measured 3.21! high copper fault? or do I start counting from zero with copper for the other two fish too? (foxface and bristeltooth)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi
day 25 of quarantine with coppersafe... the blenny died.... just today! I didn't see him eating he was almost always hidden, but every now and then I'd see him walking around. i used a stupid colorimetric test.... the day before yesterday i got the hanna one... today i saw the dead blenny i tried the hanna and i measured 3.21! high copper fault? or do I start counting from zero with copper for the other two fish too? (foxface and bristeltooth)

Coppersafe or copper power needs to be below 2.6 - I don’t have a lot of data on high doses like that, but I would expect it to be toxic to the fish.
Jay

 

[cubicalkong]

If I have fish coming out of an infected DT and I have not observed any signs of worms for a few months. Would the 2 weeks of Prazi be necessary? I would be starting another fallow period at the same time as treatment. Are 45 days at 81 degrees recommended? (48 days with copper/observation)

thanks @Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If I have fish coming out of an infected DT and I have not observed any signs of worms for a few months. Would the 2 weeks of Prazi be necessary? I would be starting another fallow period at the same time as treatment. Are 45 days at 81 degrees recommended? (48 days with copper/observation)

thanks @Jay Hemdal

Sorry - I’m not quite sure I’m following the scenario. Sometimes, fish with flukes don’t show a lot of symptoms, I would still run the two prazi treatments, just to play it safe.
Jay

 

[BigBendBirder]

Do you think a .21 reading on the Hanna hi range checker is enough to inhibit, or mask, ich or velvet growth? In other words, if i'm getting that reading in a 10gal QT tank, would it prevent potentially sick fish from showing visible signs of the diseases?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Do you think a .21 reading on the Hanna hi range checker is enough to inhibit, or mask, ich or velvet growth? In other words, if i'm getting that reading in a 10gal QT tank, would it prevent potentially sick fish from showing visible signs of the diseases?

What copper product are you using? I presume Cupramine?

There is this common idea that "low copper levels gives partial disease control". I don't subscribe to that idea. I think low copper levels give essentially no control. Copper is a tightrope - you need to get to a level that kills the parasite but not high enough to harm the fish. Getting part of the way there does not control the parasites.

You need to get to a full dose, which is 0.50 for Cupramine and 2.5 for coppersafe or copper power.

Jay

 

[BigBendBirder]

What copper product are you using? I presume Cupramine?

There is this common idea that "low copper levels gives partial disease control". I don't subscribe to that idea. I think low copper levels give essentially no control. Copper is a tightrope - you need to get to a level that kills the parasite but not high enough to harm the fish. Getting part of the way there does not control the parasites.

You need to get to a full dose, which is 0.50 for Cupramine and 2.5 for coppersafe or copper power.

Jay

Thank you for the info, Jay. Glad to hear you don't think low levels will control the parasites - that's actually what I've been hoping for. I used Copper Power many months ago, and treated at 2.25 - 2.50 for the recommended period. Saved all 3 fish with the help of the info here (thank you all!), and eventually moved them to the main tank. I did several 50% - 75% water changes after that, and used cuprisorb for a month in my HOB filter on that tank. I've been unsuccessful in getting the detected copper level below .2 since then. I want to use this tank for QT again now, hence my question. I don't want to add new fish to the QT and observe them for a month or longer if the level of copper still present is going to be enough to just hide a problem that might be present.

I guess essentially, I'm trying to convert what became a hospital tank into an observational quarantine tank.

I suppose I should also 'fess up: I decided early on to add sand and rock to this tank for aesthetics (in guest room), not knowing at the time that they would absorb copper. When I added fish that turned out to have ich, I decided to sacrifice the rock and sand for permanent use in this tank, and did the Copper Power treatment, checking levels twice daily to ensure a steady level at or above 2.25. I know the rock and sand are leaching copper back into the water, but i thought eventually the level would drop to an undetectable level. Seems like it's stuck at .2.

 

[BetterJake]

Great Article. Thanks for all you do Jay!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for the info, Jay. Glad to hear you don't think low levels will control the parasites - that's actually what I've been hoping for. I used Copper Power many months ago, and treated at 2.25 - 2.50 for the recommended period. Saved all 3 fish with the help of the info here (thank you all!), and eventually moved them to the main tank. I did several 50% - 75% water changes after that, and used cuprisorb for a month in my HOB filter on that tank. I've been unsuccessful in getting the detected copper level below .2 since then. I want to use this tank for QT again now, hence my question. I don't want to add new fish to the QT and observe them for a month or longer if the level of copper still present is going to be enough to just hide a problem that might be present.

I guess essentially, I'm trying to convert what became a hospital tank into an observational quarantine tank.

I suppose I should also 'fess up: I decided early on to add sand and rock to this tank for aesthetics (in guest room), not knowing at the time that they would absorb copper. When I added fish that turned out to have ich, I decided to sacrifice the rock and sand for permanent use in this tank, and did the Copper Power treatment, checking levels twice daily to ensure a steady level at or above 2.25. I know the rock and sand are leaching copper back into the water, but i thought eventually the level would drop to an undetectable level. Seems like it's stuck at .2.

O.K, well, it seems that the copper is being released back into the tank after being absorbed onto calcareous material (rock and sand). That can be managed if you convert it to a hospital tank - you'll just test and add less copper. Getting it clean for sue with invertebrates is tougher - you could just use copper absorbing material and water changes to try to reduce the copper levels, but it might require that you pull all of the animals, fill the tank with freshwater and then acidify it to release all of the copper and change out the water (possibly multiple time). In the end, I often give up and just never use that tank for inverts again.

Jay

 

[Gildo]

Hi
this afternoon I checked that I was able to reduce the copper, I measured 0.2 and then switched to the praziquel dosage.

having an equivalent product that we talked about on the last page, I put 0.049 of active ingredient in 5.28 gallons.
already having the internal filter pump, a large airstone with an aerator, and a sponge filter connected to the aerator, I thought I didn't have any dissolved oxygen problems.

but now I see the juvenile Ctenochaetus strigosus lying on the bottom breathing hard. I then added an additional pump near the aerator so that it sucks in and sends around a lot of bubbles.

If it doesn't work what else can I do?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi
this afternoon I checked that I was able to reduce the copper, I measured 0.2 and then switched to the praziquel dosage.

having an equivalent product that we talked about on the last page, I put 0.049 of active ingredient in 5.28 gallons.
already having the internal filter pump, a large airstone with an aerator, and a sponge filter connected to the aerator, I thought I didn't have any dissolved oxygen problems.

but now I see the juvenile Ctenochaetus strigosus lying on the bottom breathing hard. I then added an additional pump near the aerator so that it sucks in and sends around a lot of bubbles.

If it doesn't work what else can I do?

Your dose works out to be 2.5ppm, so that is good.

You mention "active ingredient". That implies there is some "inactive ingredient" in the product you used - do you know what it is? We call those excipients, and some are harmless to fish, but others can cause issues.

How soon after adding the medication did the tang begin acting poorly?

Jay

 

[Gildo]

La tua dose risulta essere di 2,5 ppm, quindi va bene.

Parli di "principio attivo". Ciò implica che c'è qualche "ingrediente inattivo" nel prodotto che hai usato - sai di cosa si tratta? Chiamiamo questi eccipienti e alcuni sono innocui per i pesci, ma altri possono causare problemi.

Quanto tempo dopo aver aggiunto il farmaco il codolo ha iniziato a comportarsi male?

Jay