Cycling an Aquarium
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No
You need dirty water (ammonia and nitrite) so the bacteria will grow.
Once it is cycled then change out 75% or more of the water to bring your nitrates down to 5ppm
rkpetersen
walked the sand with the crustaceans
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Also worth noting that nitrite typically takes much much longer to drop to 0, after the ammonia level does.
You can add fish with nitrite still in the system, as saltwater fish aren't particularly sensitive to it, but don't add inverts until nitrite is 0.
And if Stability doesn't seem to be doing the job, try refrigerated Fritz Turbo Start 900 if available, otherwise try BioSpira.
rkpetersen
walked the sand with the crustaceans
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My approach is to add a much smaller amount of ammonium chloride each day, once the ammonia level is 0.
Just enough to keep those bacterial species active and providing nitrite for the other species that aren't fully established yet.
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Yup, looks good to me. Just start with smaller fish and feed them lightly for the first few weeks. Keep them healthy, just don't over feed.
Bape47
Active Member
Can y’all give me some input on this test? Am I ready to put a CUC in? And maybe 1 fish or 2?
U can add 1 damsel
ur almost done
DancingWind
Active Member
Hello,
I'm cycling a barrel of dry rock and a quarantine tank with a sponge overhang filter for ~7 weeks now.
Quarantine: hang on filter stuffed with sponge, heater, small powerhead, remp: 25C
Barrel: 120L , ~35kg Aquforest dry rock, 2l seachem matrix, a coupel offilter sponges, heater, mediumwawemaker, 400l/h air pump (bubles are rather big). Temp 27.5C
Dosed barrel over time with:
Aquforest bio S - ~30 drops (suposed dosage is 1 drop /100l),
Prodiobio 3 ampules of biodigest, Prodibio 2 bactrial supplements from reef salt kit,
~50ml of Easy life - Easy Start bacteria (~10ml / 50l).
Cycling was 'started' with spiking amonia to ~8ppm using pharmacy amonium chloride, then after a week added 1 dead shrimp. Oncen there was no more shrimp left added another (this week).
Nitrites maybe 1, Nitrate 0, amonium skyhigh - api test of the chart even after 50% water change.
quarantine tank (100L) go almost the same dosing but did not get shrimps. And was dosed less amonium chloride to start.
Initally amonium was sky high and 0 its products until I did a 75% water change last weekend. Now hovering stably at ~1ppm amonium. I did nto bother to test other parameters.
Test kits:
nh4 - Salifert.. it ppears max colour is 1.5 out of 2 ... got me puzlling, then I got API 0-8 - lol - barrel is definitely over 8, quarantine was ~8 untill water change
No2 - salifert
no3 - Aquaforest
what the heck ... all my bacteria are duds?
Did Ammonium chloride I got from pharmacy - supposed pure 10% stuff - does not foam if shaken.
.
I'm using 5 step RO filtered water (on top home filtration) from a 71m deep water aquifer. tds was ~12 when I initially fileld the barrel. do not have ICP test but i'm betting it is not the water.
TLDR - almost 2 months and ammonia did not even begin to cycle.
Any ideas? I'm going to start filling my 500L display tank this weekend and do not have filtered media to put into it this is ******** - that god dammed barrel should be perfect conditions for bacteria: dark, warm, full of nutrients and oxygen and surface area.
I'm cycling a barrel of dry rock and a quarantine tank with a sponge overhang filter for ~7 weeks now.
Quarantine: hang on filter stuffed with sponge, heater, small powerhead, remp: 25C
Barrel: 120L , ~35kg Aquforest dry rock, 2l seachem matrix, a coupel offilter sponges, heater, mediumwawemaker, 400l/h air pump (bubles are rather big). Temp 27.5C
Dosed barrel over time with:
Aquforest bio S - ~30 drops (suposed dosage is 1 drop /100l),
Prodiobio 3 ampules of biodigest, Prodibio 2 bactrial supplements from reef salt kit,
~50ml of Easy life - Easy Start bacteria (~10ml / 50l).
Cycling was 'started' with spiking amonia to ~8ppm using pharmacy amonium chloride, then after a week added 1 dead shrimp. Oncen there was no more shrimp left added another (this week).
Nitrites maybe 1, Nitrate 0, amonium skyhigh - api test of the chart even after 50% water change.
quarantine tank (100L) go almost the same dosing but did not get shrimps. And was dosed less amonium chloride to start.
Initally amonium was sky high and 0 its products until I did a 75% water change last weekend. Now hovering stably at ~1ppm amonium. I did nto bother to test other parameters.
Test kits:
nh4 - Salifert.. it ppears max colour is 1.5 out of 2 ... got me puzlling, then I got API 0-8 - lol - barrel is definitely over 8, quarantine was ~8 untill water change
No2 - salifert
no3 - Aquaforest
what the heck ... all my bacteria are duds?
Did Ammonium chloride I got from pharmacy - supposed pure 10% stuff - does not foam if shaken.
.
I'm using 5 step RO filtered water (on top home filtration) from a 71m deep water aquifer. tds was ~12 when I initially fileld the barrel. do not have ICP test but i'm betting it is not the water.
TLDR - almost 2 months and ammonia did not even begin to cycle.
Any ideas? I'm going to start filling my 500L display tank this weekend and do not have filtered media to put into it this is ******** - that god dammed barrel should be perfect conditions for bacteria: dark, warm, full of nutrients and oxygen and surface area.
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Rogued_Reefer
Valuable Member
DancingWind
Active Member
Barrel 120L, QT 100L and where is the post edit function?
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Wow.... I understand your frustration. I've seen cycles stall in QT tanks using ammonium chloride when the bacteria/algae consumed all of the available nutrients but I've never seen that issue when shrimp are used in the cycle.
Another thing that has me confused is getting a reading of 1 on nitrites but not getting nitrates. The Aquaforest nitrate test (and most other NO3 tests) work by breaking nitrates down into nitrites and measuring them as nitrites. This means any amount of nitrites will cause nitrates to read high.
Any chance it is your Aquaforest nitrate test kit that is the dud?
DancingWind
Active Member
Last couple of weeks bacteria should have been feasting on micro elements for them from prodibio. I started with 1 ampule of prodibio biodigest and dosing with AF bio S drops, but finally I saw things are going nowhere 2 weeks ago I got full set of: https://www.prodibio.com/maintenance-aquarium-biological-clean-water-bioclean-care-treat and https://www.amazon.co.uk/Easy-Life-Easystart-500-ml/dp/B002B85590 .. still nothing.As for tests.
Salifert No2 test ... oups its probably 0.1ppm or whatever minimum readout is - it is very light pink .. not sure if it sits on first block on the colour strip or maybe second... the thing is .. every time I tested (4-5 times) it was allways on the same indecipherable but very negligible measurement colour - seems like residual color or might even diffraction from the coloured chart.
No3 test from aquforest does not even turn pink - just stays yellowish from compound b. And if aquaforest works by converting no3 to no2 (colour chart is Very similar to saliferts no2 test) then it kinda confirms that no2 is also at 0.
Well I guess I could getting another test kit for no3 - but I was not testing to regularly for no3 because from sky high ammonia levels I saw no reason - clearly it's not cycling
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Agree that you shouldn't be nutrient limited. And if your NO2 is actually barely 0.1ppm then I doubt it is a testing issue.
As for tests.
Salifert No2 test ... oups its probably 0.1ppm or whatever minimum readout is - it is very light pink .. not sure if it sits on first block on the colour strip or maybe second... the thing is .. every time I tested (4-5 times) it was allways on the same indecipherable but very negligible measurement colour - seems like residual color or might even diffraction from the coloured chart.
No3 test from aquforest does not even turn pink - just stays yellowish from compound b. And if aquaforest works by converting no3 to no2 (colour chart is Very similar to saliferts no2 test) then it kinda confirms that no2 is also at 0.
Well I guess I could getting another test kit for no3 - but I was not testing to regularly for no3 because from sky high ammonia levels I saw no reason - clearly it's not cycling
I know that nitrifying bacteria can still work in ammonia as high as 10ppm but I'm not sure how much higher than that it can get and still have them thrive. I don't recall ever seeing that data. I guess it is possible that your ammonia got "too high" but I'm doubting that.
I even agree with you that it is unlikely to be something in your water. Chloramine could have been a culprit but even it would be gone within a month.
You obviously know what you are doing and unfortunately I doubt I can come up with anything you haven't already thought of.
Wish I could help, but you have me stumped.
DancingWind
Active Member
... well there is always live rock (more like 'not quite dead rock' by the time it reaches my door).
Or I could try fauna marin starter cultures ordered from german fauna marin store ... here in Eastern Europe we are not exactly brimming with options on the local market :/
Or I could try fauna marin starter cultures ordered from german fauna marin store ... here in Eastern Europe we are not exactly brimming with options on the local market :/
DancingWind
Active Member
Humm ... well some say spike to 8ppm for best results, some say don't go over 5, other's mention that 10ppm makes cycling kaput ... as usual everyone has an opinion
well Barrel needs another water change (kind of late for that though, probably will continue in the main dt) but I'm removing definitely the shrimp...
though it does not answer why my QT's ammonia is still not budging.
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
My preference is to not go much over 2ppm so you can add another opinion.Humm ... well some say spike to 8ppm for best results, some say don't go over 5, other's mention that 10ppm makes cycling kaput ... as usual everyone has an opinion
well Barrel needs another water change (kind of late for that though, probably will continue in the main dt) but I'm removing definitely the shrimp...
though it does not answer why my QT's ammonia is still not budging.
I came across a study while putting this info together that found different strains of AOB's prefer different levels of ammonia. So while you will grow nitrifying bacteria at 8ppm, and those strains will process ammonia at under 2ppm, they will eventually be outcompeted by strains of bacteria that more efficiently process ammonia under 2ppm.
If you want, I can make something up about why you aren't processing ammonia.
I'm not a facebook fan, but you may want to reach out to Prodibio on their facebook page.
DancingWind
Active Member
My preference is to not go much over 2ppm so you can add another opinion.
I came across a study while putting this info together that found different strains of AOB's prefer different levels of ammonia. So while you will grow nitrifying bacteria at 8ppm, and those strains will process ammonia at under 2ppm, they will eventually be outcompeted by strains of bacteria that more efficiently process ammonia under 2ppm.
If you want, I can make something up about why you aren't processing ammonia.
I'm not a facebook fan, but you may want to reach out to Prodibio on their facebook page.
We have progress in QT tank that was supposedly stuck on 1ppm. last night I tested with salifert nh4 test - 0ish? 0.25ish? added 1.10ml 10% ammonia to rase it to 1.25ppm (tank is ~90L volume) - not to overdose.
today salifert test - its again 0ish. Added 0.5ml 10% ammonia and after half an hour tested again with salifert - 0.5ish ppm
Best part is:I have ~0.5ppm no2 and 3-5 ppm No3
There is some pinkish "snoot" growing on my thermometers suction cup - Is that good? QT is in basement with small windows so its a bit of a twilight during the day.
I also got some weirdness: my API ammonia test shows ~2ppm - I call this ******** since Salifert appears to respond to my ammonia input
so the moral of the story appears to be - don't spike ammonia
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