Dealing with prazi resistant flukes?

[Humblefish]

** This information was originally posted here: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/dealing-with-prazi-resistant-flukes.136/ **

It's going to happen sooner or later... You treat with Prazipro (or General Cure), wait 5-7 days, do your 25% water change and dose again. And yet flukes remain on the fish. :(

One important step you should take when determining when is the best time to administer the second dose is use this treatment calendar: http://www.marineparasites.com/paratreatmentcal.html

It takes water temperature & salinity into consideration, and provides a more accurate dosing schedule than the generic "5-7 days."

But what if you still have flukes despite following the treatment calendar? Well, if you used API General Cure give Prazipro a try next before moving on to other options. The reason is because General Cure only contains a praziquantel concentration of 2.0 mg/L vs. Prazipro's 2.5 mg/L. To be clear, 2.0 mg/L prazi is considered therapeutic; however Prazipro's "overdosed" 2.5 mg/L concentration is obviously going to be more effective. (If you keep having problems with flukes getting through General Cure, I recommend shaking or rolling the canister to be sure the prazi/metro powder ratio is more evenly distributed.)

What if even Prazipro doesn't get the job done?? Below is a list of alternative treatments for flukes, in order of preference:

• Fenbendazole: 12 hour bath treatment at 25 mg/L (95 mg/gallon). It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.
• Hyposalinity for 1 week eliminates both juvenile & adult flukes, and prevents egg hatching.
• Formalin: 45 minute bath treatment at 0.6 ml per gallon, or 12 drops per gallon. It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.
• Hydrogen Peroxide (still experimental): 75ppm H2O2 for 30 minutes. To achieve this concentration, dose 0.625 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 cup of saltwater OR 2.5 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 liter of saltwater. It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.

The reason I prefer Fenbendazole is because I have yet to see any flukes get through that. It is a PITA to do a 12 hour bath treatment, but Fenbendazole is probably one of the safest medications to use on wrasses and other "prazi sensitive" species. :)

 

[lagatbezan]

@Humblefish if do hypo for 5 days, do the fish need to be transferred to a new qt or is it safe to just increase salinity in the same qt after the 5 days?

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish if do hypo for 5 days, do the fish need to be transferred to a new qt or is it safe to just increase salinity in the same qt after the 5 days?

I would do hypo for a full 7 days (for good measure.) You can raise SG back up in the treatment tank because all the flukes will be dead. However, this logic only applies for fluke treatment... If using hypo to also treat Ich you need to maintain 1.009 for a full 30 days.

 

[Amboss72]

For many years I’ve just done a 5-10 min freshwater dip which has successfully dislodged most flukes. If necessary I’ve added formalin/formalin malachite green to the dip at between 100 to 150mg/L or 8-12 drops per gallon I’ve done the dips on a daily basis if necessary. Flukes usually don’t survive this method. I agree that fenbendazole is great and it’s expensive. I just rarely have found it to be necessary particularly when most parasites can’t handle the exposure to freshwater. The key is once the flukes dislodge don’t introduce them back into the tank. Flukes can even dislodge in your attempts to capture and remove the fish from your DT.

 

[WMR]

+1@Humblefish, very good solutions for fluke issues, when we would get fish in, we would usually put them in systems with Prazipro in them. If the fish came in with anything cloudy(eyes, fins), we’d give them a freshwater bath first, then put them in the Prazipro systems. Sometimes, they wouldn’t show anything for a couple days, then we’d treat them. You have to monitor them when giving them their bath, if they dropped to the bottom immediately( shock), I’d touch them with the net handle to get them moving, if they showed dropped again, they’d go into the treated tank & get their fw bath in a day or two. We also ran uv sterilizers on the fish systems.

 

[Humblefish]

For many years I’ve just done a 5-10 min freshwater dip which has successfully dislodged most flukes. If necessary I’ve added formalin/formalin malachite green to the dip at between 100 to 150mg/L or 8-12 drops per gallon I’ve done the dips on a daily basis if necessary. Flukes usually don’t survive this method. I agree that fenbendazole is great and it’s expensive. I just rarely have found it to be necessary particularly when most parasites can’t handle the exposure to freshwater. The key is once the flukes dislodge don’t introduce them back into the tank. Flukes can even dislodge in your attempts to capture and remove the fish from your DT.

IME; freshwater dips are very effective against skin flukes and repeated dips can even be used to fully eradicate. However, a freshwater dip is less effective against gill flukes and sometimes you have to look really hard in the bucket to even see them (tiny white specks). IMO; it usually takes prolonged immersion in prazi, fenbendazole, formalin or osmotic shock to completely eliminate gill flukes.

 

[Amboss72]

As several responders have mentioned there is difficulty in seeing the flukes after they fall off. The thought occurred to me if a diatomaceous earth filter in a quarantine tank would be a good way of slicing up and killing dislodged flukes. Flukes are lousy swimmers so they primarily spread by crawling from one host to the next. Once dislodged the chances they’ll find another host are minimal. Just a thought. I know Marineland makes a micron filter you can easily charge with diatomaceous earth that would fit in smaller quarantines and I believe they’re like $70.

 

[mfollen]

After two weeks without seeing flukes, I can now safely say that in my limited experience that prazi resistant flukes may be more related to the timing of dosage vs resistance to the actual medicine.

After three doses in my display tank the little buggers still appeared. I feared I was dealing with prazi-resisting flukes.

My treatment timing for each dose was the following:
First dose.
Second dose 5 days later.
Third dose, 5 days after the second.

Prazi is supposed to be active in the water for up to 3 days at best. But what about the eggs that hatch during day 3 or 4? That’s what happened to me.

Flukes could hatch within the treatment gap, and possibly live a short life span, and move to the next part of its life cycle quicker than normal flukes.

I was determined to kill these flukes as taking all 15 fish from my 180 reef seemed to be a nightmare.

After dose three, I did two more doses. From dose 3-5, each dose was 72 hours after the other. The three day max effective period. I did water changes in between every dose.

It worked. With 9 days of almost full extended treatment, prazi resistant flukes died. I will note: my parrotfish got lethargic and stopped eating at the increased doseage for only 2 days. He’s doing great now.

My recommendation: Right off the bat, treat every 72 hours after a water change. Why risk hatchlings within the treatment gap?

The result is 9 days straight of prazipro in the display. After dose 3 wait and observe. Again, it took 5 doses for me with doses 4 & 5 at elevated doses.

I hope that those that are desperate to rid their system of flukes try this before taking out every fish for QT which can be an absolute major pain.

Just my experience and reporting here. Not large data set here to back my experience up.

 

[Winterose]

Hey guys, I'm having my fair share of prazi-resistant flukes :( . I've eradicated them before with formalin, but thinking of using fenbendazole after reading humblefish's posting.
Living in Canada, it's hard to get fish bendazole :/ so my question is; is it the same using panacur granules 22.2% (222mg/g)?
I've read that humbelfish mentiones fenbendazole being sold as panacur, but I just want to triple check that what I have access to is the same thing. If you guys don't mind checking, the link is https://www.petsdrugmart.ca/en/Product/Panacur-Granule-Single-Packets-1852082,1852086,1852084/3584

Thank you guys so much!
Longtime lurker on these forums since my first encounter of prazi-resistant flukes, I hope this time around, fenbendazole does the trick!
Hope to hear from anyone soon, really want to get going with this treatment. Cheers

 

[John Smoak]

** This information was originally posted here: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/dealing-with-prazi-resistant-flukes.136/ **

It's going to happen sooner or later... You treat with Prazipro (or General Cure), wait 5-7 days, do your 25% water change and dose again. And yet flukes remain on the fish. :(

One important step you should take when determining when is the best time to administer the second dose is use this treatment calendar: http://www.marineparasites.com/paratreatmentcal.html

It takes water temperature & salinity into consideration, and provides a more accurate dosing schedule than the generic "5-7 days."

But what if you still have flukes despite following the treatment calendar? Well, if you used API General Cure give Prazipro a try next before moving on to other options. The reason is because General Cure only contains a praziquantel concentration of 2.0 mg/L vs. Prazipro's 2.5 mg/L. To be clear, 2.0 mg/L prazi is considered therapeutic; however Prazipro's "overdosed" 2.5 mg/L concentration is obviously going to be more effective. (If you keep having problems with flukes getting through General Cure, I recommend shaking or rolling the canister to be sure the prazi/metro powder ratio is more evenly distributed.)

What if even Prazipro doesn't get the job done?? Below is a list of alternative treatments for flukes, in order of preference:

• Fenbendazole: 12 hour bath treatment at 25 mg/L (95 mg/gallon). It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.
• Hyposalinity for 1 week eliminates both juvenile & adult flukes, and prevents egg hatching.
• Formalin: 45 minute bath treatment at 0.6 ml per gallon, or 12 drops per gallon. It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.
• Hydrogen Peroxide (still experimental): 75ppm H2O2 for 30 minutes. To achieve this concentration, dose 0.625 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 cup of saltwater OR 2.5 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 liter of saltwater. It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.

The reason I prefer Fenbendazole is because I have yet to see any flukes get through that. It is a PITA to do a 12 hour bath treatment, but Fenbendazole is probably one of the safest medications to use on wrasses and other "prazi sensitive" species. :)

I introduced an unidentified fluke via an incorrect nori clip for QT placed into my display. It is a capsalid monogean. Three or four pairs of haptens , dimorphic egg laying adult with what I classify as 6 life cycle stages: egg, miricidia, cyst, oncomiricidia; juvenile; adult. The adults are very long and I suspect a long life span....leading to treatment resistance. Mine came in on either a blue line angel or Red Sea regal, both in same shipment 6/2018. So, we’ve had them for over 2.5 years now. Have found LIVE adults in a FW bath a full 24 hours after dip. (Terrible sketches attached).

I have had success with a 55 watt UV on my 300 gallon display keeping them below lethal levels. Have observed praziquantel is effective against young adults. Rally is VERY effective against the earlier life cycle stages. Hydroplex dip is great for fish that are heavily infested when UV loses strength. Am currently experimenting with prolonged Rally interspersed with Praziquantal. Very trying but I have kept my fish alive for 2.5 years of this nightmare (French angel, chrysurus angel, pair of purple tangs, pair of Venustus angel, shepherd’s angel, 5 P. Friedmani, pair of black perculas, blue line angel, majestic angel)

since I’ve seen the prazi slicing through young adults (under microscope), I’m hopeful it at least pierces the integument of the larger adults, making them susceptible to Rally’s 3 active ingredients (formalin, acriflavine, amino something or other). Note that the formalin is only present as a catalyst for the other 2 from what I understand, ie non therapeutic levels of formalin.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Interesting, I thought all Capsalids were flattened ovals. Take a look on Google for Neoentobdella parvitesticulata - there is a paper that has a line drawing of a portion of that species that is very similar to yours.

To bad hyposalinity didn’t work- it is my go-to for Neobenedenia.

Welcome to Reef2Reef by the way!

Jay

 

[FragFarm]

** This information was originally posted here: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/dealing-with-prazi-resistant-flukes.136/ **

It's going to happen sooner or later... You treat with Prazipro (or General Cure), wait 5-7 days, do your 25% water change and dose again. And yet flukes remain on the fish. :(

One important step you should take when determining when is the best time to administer the second dose is use this treatment calendar: http://www.marineparasites.com/paratreatmentcal.html

It takes water temperature & salinity into consideration, and provides a more accurate dosing schedule than the generic "5-7 days."

But what if you still have flukes despite following the treatment calendar? Well, if you used API General Cure give Prazipro a try next before moving on to other options. The reason is because General Cure only contains a praziquantel concentration of 2.0 mg/L vs. Prazipro's 2.5 mg/L. To be clear, 2.0 mg/L prazi is considered therapeutic; however Prazipro's "overdosed" 2.5 mg/L concentration is obviously going to be more effective. (If you keep having problems with flukes getting through General Cure, I recommend shaking or rolling the canister to be sure the prazi/metro powder ratio is more evenly distributed.)

What if even Prazipro doesn't get the job done?? Below is a list of alternative treatments for flukes, in order of preference:

• Fenbendazole: 12 hour bath treatment at 25 mg/L (95 mg/gallon). It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.
• Hyposalinity for 1 week eliminates both juvenile & adult flukes, and prevents egg hatching.
• Formalin: 45 minute bath treatment at 0.6 ml per gallon, or 12 drops per gallon. It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.
• Hydrogen Peroxide (still experimental): 75ppm H2O2 for 30 minutes. To achieve this concentration, dose 0.625 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 cup of saltwater OR 2.5 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 liter of saltwater. It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.

The reason I prefer Fenbendazole is because I have yet to see any flukes get through that. It is a PITA to do a 12 hour bath treatment, but Fenbendazole is probably one of the safest medications to use on wrasses and other "prazi sensitive" species. :)

The reason I prefer Fenbendazole is because I have yet to see any flukes get through that. It is a PITA to do a 12 hour bath treatment, but Fenbendazole is probably one of the safest medications to use on wrasses and other "prazi sensitive" species.

** This information was originally posted here: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/dealing-with-prazi-resistant-flukes.136/ **

It's going to happen sooner or later... You treat with Prazipro (or General Cure), wait 5-7 days, do your 25% water change and dose again. And yet flukes remain on the fish. :(

One important step you should take when determining when is the best time to administer the second dose is use this treatment calendar: http://www.marineparasites.com/paratreatmentcal.html

It takes water temperature & salinity into consideration, and provides a more accurate dosing schedule than the generic "5-7 days."

But what if you still have flukes despite following the treatment calendar? Well, if you used API General Cure give Prazipro a try next before moving on to other options. The reason is because General Cure only contains a praziquantel concentration of 2.0 mg/L vs. Prazipro's 2.5 mg/L. To be clear, 2.0 mg/L prazi is considered therapeutic; however Prazipro's "overdosed" 2.5 mg/L concentration is obviously going to be more effective. (If you keep having problems with flukes getting through General Cure, I recommend shaking or rolling the canister to be sure the prazi/metro powder ratio is more evenly distributed.)

What if even Prazipro doesn't get the job done?? Below is a list of alternative treatments for flukes, in order of preference:

• Fenbendazole: 12 hour bath treatment at 25 mg/L (95 mg/gallon). It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.
• Hyposalinity for 1 week eliminates both juvenile & adult flukes, and prevents egg hatching.
• Formalin: 45 minute bath treatment at 0.6 ml per gallon, or 12 drops per gallon. It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.
• Hydrogen Peroxide (still experimental): 75ppm H2O2 for 30 minutes. To achieve this concentration, dose 0.625 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 cup of saltwater OR 2.5 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 liter of saltwater. It would be advisable to transfer the fish into a sterile QT following the bath treatment (to prevent reinfection), and to perform a second bath + transfer 1 week later to eliminate any hatchlings.

The reason I prefer Fenbendazole is because I have yet to see any flukes get through that. It is a PITA to do a 12 hour bath treatment, but Fenbendazole is probably one of the safest medications to use on wrasses and other "prazi sensitive" species. :)

great post but
The reason I prefer Fenbendazole is because I have yet to see any flukes get through that. It is a PITA to do a 12 hour bath treatment, but Fenbendazole is probably one of the safest medications to use on wrasses and other "prazi sensitive" species.

wheh I click link for the fenbendazole first thing it says DO NOT USE ON WRASSE. is it wrasse safe or not

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The reason I prefer Fenbendazole is because I have yet to see any flukes get through that. It is a PITA to do a 12 hour bath treatment, but Fenbendazole is probably one of the safest medications to use on wrasses and other "prazi sensitive" species.

great post but
The reason I prefer Fenbendazole is because I have yet to see any flukes get through that. It is a PITA to do a 12 hour bath treatment, but Fenbendazole is probably one of the safest medications to use on wrasses and other "prazi sensitive" species.

wheh I click link for the fenbendazole first thing it says DO NOT USE ON WRASSE. is it wrasse safe or not

Fenbendazole has odd toxic reactions with some species when used dissolved in water. I've never used it on wrasses, but it is 100% deadly to flashlight fish and darters. It is also toxic to some catfish and tetras. You add a dose (2 mg/l) and everything looks o.k., but then the fish start dying around 24 to 72 hours later. Moving the fish to fresh water does not stop the mortality. It may be that it isn't the fenbendazole itself, but rather, it kills nematodes and if the fish have a heavy infection (no way to tell this) those in turn decompose and that kills the fish. Either way, I've lost enough fish to this that I no longer used it.

Jay

 

[Jposch]

Fenbendazole has odd toxic reactions with some species when used dissolved in water. I've never used it on wrasses, but it is 100% deadly to flashlight fish and darters. It is also toxic to some catfish and tetras. You add a dose (2 mg/l) and everything looks o.k., but then the fish start dying around 24 to 72 hours later. Moving the fish to fresh water does not stop the mortality. It may be that it isn't the fenbendazole itself, but rather, it kills nematodes and if the fish have a heavy infection (no way to tell this) those in turn decompose and that kills the fish. Either way, I've lost enough fish to this that I no longer used it.

Jay

Using fenbendazole is absolutely not my first choice. When I use it, i do a 12 hour bath, followed by a 30 minute methylene blue bath, and then transfer to a clean tank. Fush recover rapidly. Without the methylene blue bath, fish remain lethaergic and "loopy" for 24-48hours. Fenbendazole lingers. I had no good experiences trying to remove the meds via w/c or carbon or both. Also, EXTREMELY lethal to leather corals. Cabbage leathers seem to have a better tolerance.