Diatom filter for treating external parasites?

[Humblefish]

Here are some conclusions I've reached based on logic and my understanding of parasite life cycles:

• Assuming your tank is already infested with ich or velvet: You would need to run a diatom continuously for either 41 days (velvet) or 72 days (ich) for a reasonable chance of complete eradication in a DT. In actuality, you probably need to run it for a lot longer than that. But 41 or 72 days would be required to give the diatom an opportunity to suck out each & every free swimmer as they "hatch" from the embedded tomonts.
• If you are using a diatom from Day 1, before any fish are added, there is a possibility the protomont is sucked out before it ever has a chance to encyst upon rock, substrate, etc. This could happen 3-7 days after a fish infected with ich is introduced into an aquarium, or 4 days max for velvet. If this theory is correct, fish still have to "weather the storm" of parasites on their body and inside their gills, but would be protected from any future reinfection due to the presence of the DE.
• Aquarium grade diatom filters (i.e. Vortex) are not suitable for long-term use in SW; only FW. These also are a PITA to use, clean, recharge, etc. So, your only option for long term use in SW is to build a DIY DE using materials capable of withstanding corrosive saltwater. Contact @robert or @Paul B for more info on how to do this.
• However, even a Vortex should hold up for 10 days of continuous saltwater use in a QT. And this is the route I plan to take for experimentation purposes. Give a test subject infected with velvet the usual FW dip/chemical bath to deal with the "surface parasites" and then place the fish in a non-medicated QT with a running diatom filter. 10 days later transfer the fish to a non-medicated HT to see if symptoms return. For my purposes, the working diatom filter will take the place of any chemical or hyposalinity treatment. Instead of zapping free swimmers with chemicals/hypo - I will rely upon the DE to suck them (and possibly even the stage that drops off the fish) out of the water before they can reinfect. 10 days will allow enough time for velvet or even ich to drop off a fish. In theory, I should be leaving behind any parasite problems in the QT and the fish should have a "clean slate" once put in the HT.

 

[soubhik]

If I put diatomaceous Earth inside a mess bag and put it in a canister filter will that work as a diatom filter ?

 

[Harold Green]

Robert I beg to disagree. Most reef tanks are well filtered. Besides filter socks the live rock and gravel filter water and many of the reef animals also filter water. Established tanks often have thousands or feather dusters, sponges, coral polyps, etc. all constantly removing plankton from the water. Do the usual mechanical filters remove down to micron size, no. Fortunately most of us don't require filtering down to that level and I doubt it would be beneficial to our corals.

 

[robert]

If I put diatomaceous Earth inside a mess bag and put it in a canister filter will that work as a diatom filter ?

No - most likely that this approach would flood your system with DE powder and make a mess out of the water. Even if you used a felt material and managed to get it not to blow through the filter - then the DE would simply clog the filter and cut off the water flow.

It takes a bit pressure to push water through DE

 

[Harold Green]

If I put diatomaceous Earth inside a mess bag and put it in a canister filter will that work as a diatom filter ?

You might want to look around and see if you can find a diatom filter that will fit in your canister. At one time there were several on the market but now it looks like the magnum is the main one left.

 

[robert]

Robert I beg to disagree. Most reef tanks are well filtered. Besides filter socks the live rock and gravel filter water and many of the reef animals also filter water. Established tanks often have thousands or feather dusters, sponges, coral polyps, etc. all constantly removing plankton from the water. Do the usual mechanical filters remove down to micron size, no. Fortunately most of us don't require filtering down to that level and I doubt it would be beneficial to our corals.

I take your point - I overstated my case.

A well run and established system does obviously achieve the required water quality to grow heathty corals and fish through all of the means you list - its a balancing act - as it is in nature.

Unfortuantely stuff happens and our limited water volumes magnify the ramifications of that stuff. It might be a death in the tank - an inadvertant overfeeding, an introduced pathogen...or something as simple as a change in flow resulting from a cloged power-head - and the balance goes out - a bacterial/pathogen bloom hits - and the system is inbalanced.

Good mechanical filteration can often save you in such circumstances.

 

[robert]

Here are some conclusions I've reached based on logic and my understanding of parasite life cycles:

• Assuming your tank is already infested with ich or velvet: You would need to run a diatom continuously for either 41 days (velvet) or 72 days (ich) for a reasonable chance of complete eradication in a DT. In actuality, you probably need to run it for a lot longer than that. But 41 or 72 days would be required to give the diatom an opportunity to suck out each & every free swimmer as they "hatch" from the embedded tomonts.
• If you are using a diatom from Day 1, before any fish are added, there is a possibility the protomont is sucked out before it ever has a chance to encyst upon rock, substrate, etc. This could happen 3-7 days after a fish infected with ich is introduced into an aquarium, or 4 days max for velvet. If this theory is correct, fish still have to "weather the storm" of parasites on their body and inside their gills, but would be protected from any future reinfection due to the presence of the DE.
• Aquarium grade diatom filters (i.e. Vortex) are not suitable for long-term use in SW; only FW. These also are a PITA to use, clean, recharge, etc. So, your only option for long term use in SW is to build a DIY DE using materials capable of withstanding corrosive saltwater. Contact @robert or @Paul B for more info on how to do this.
• However, even a Vortex should hold up for 10 days of continuous saltwater use in a QT. And this is the route I plan to take for experimentation purposes. Give a test subject infected with velvet the usual FW dip/chemical bath to deal with the "surface parasites" and then place the fish in a non-medicated QT with a running diatom filter. 10 days later transfer the fish to a non-medicated HT to see if symptoms return. For my purposes, the working diatom filter will take the place of any chemical or hyposalinity treatment. Instead of zapping free swimmers with chemicals/hypo - I will rely upon the DE to suck them (and possibly even the stage that drops off the fish) out of the water before they can reinfect. 10 days will allow enough time for velvet or even ich to drop off a fish. In theory, I should be leaving behind any parasite problems in the QT and the fish should have a "clean slate" once put in the HT.

I look forward to seeing your results...

 

[cono]

I think we all would ...lol

 

[Humblefish]

I look forward to seeing your results...

Would this be suitable for a 29 gal QT: http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-D-1-Diatom-Filter/dp/B0002602SW

 

[robert]

Would this be suitable for a 29 gal QT: http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-D-1-Diatom-Filter/dp/B0002602SW

looks like more than enough....

 

[Harold Green]

I take your point - I overstated my case.

A well run and established system does obviously achieve the required water quality to grow heathty corals and fish through all of the means you list - its a balancing act - as it is in nature.

Unfortuantely stuff happens and our limited water volumes magnify the ramifications of that stuff. It might be a death in the tank - an inadvertant overfeeding, an introduced pathogen...or something as simple as a change in flow resulting from a cloged power-head - and the balance goes out - a bacterial/pathogen bloom hits - and the system is inbalanced.

Good mechanical filteration can often save you in such circumstance

Robert I agree with you. I tend to overfilter my tanks. Twin filter socks, Skimmer rated at twice the tank volume, lots of live rock, refusium with deep sand bed, gfo/carbon reactor. Lots of snails, hermits, pods that all consume leftover matter. Several varieties of macros growing in the fuge. Is it perfect? Not by a long shot. But under normal circumstances it gets the job done. I really feel it's more important to have a healthy environment than it is to try and eliminate every pathogen that turns up in the tank.

 

[Paul B]

Humblefish, that is the normal size diatom filter and would be more than enough for a 29 gallon tank. It is also the smallest diatom filter available.

 

[Humblefish]

@robert & @Paul B thank you both

Once I get everything up & running, I'll post some photos of the QT setup with the DE. Find a fish with velvet, do the experiment and document everything on this thread. FWIW; I sincerely hope my original assumption is incorrect and this experiment proves successful. I would love to add a diatom filter to the list of "proven methods" for treating ich, velvet, etc. I'm not a big fan of treating fish with chemicals, although I'm sure at times it certainly appears that way. I consider them a necessary evil. :mad:

 

[robert]

When I was looking up the flow for than model I found this manual -

"The “Diatom” is a high-speed auxiliary filter designed to filter aquarium water to an extremely pure state. It can replace “outside” or “under-gravel” filters. Used properly, your Diatom Filter will eliminate the need to “tear down” or disassemble your aquarium to clean it. The Diatom D-1 Filter is extremely fast and will filter out particles as small as one micron (one millionth of a meter). Therefore, it is a tremendous aid in the treatment and prevention of aquarium diseases caused from microorganisms such as “Ick,” velvet, tail and fin rot, fungus, flukes, fish lice, etc. Since almost all aquarium disease parasites are larger than one micron, they are easily entrapped by the filter powders and thus eliminated from the aquarium. ATTENTION: It has been proven that the Diatom is an effective treatment and cure for parasite diseases such as Ichtheoptrisis (free-swimming parasites). Also, it has been proven under controlled experiments by constant filtration of the aquarium through the life cycle of the parasite, that many diseases are caused from parasites and live and reproduce on or in the fish itself and does not become “free swimming,” and therefore cannot be filtered out. Removing the fish from the aquarium, treated with proper medication, then returning it to the aquarium may be the best treatment for these types of disease. This usually causes the parasites to drop from the fish or otherwise seek a better host on which to feed. Once they are loose in the water, the filter may quickly entrap them. It usually takes only two or three treatments of this type, and your aquarium is free of the disease. When using the Diatom Filter as treatment on “sick” tanks, it is advisable to back-flush with hot water before moving to another tank.

Most diseases “show-up” or strike hardest on new fish that are introduced into an aquarium before the fish has a chance to adapt itself to the change in water. Often the disease is brought in with new fish. Sometimes a rapid change in temperature or a change in the chemistry of the water may weaken the fish and they become easy prey to protozoa parasites. Remember, where there are no protozoa parasites, there can be no protozoa parasite diseases! Run your Diatom D-1 Filter a few hours each day for several days after one of these conditions has occurred, and you will eliminate these outbreaks of fish-killing parasite diseases.

Follow the directions closely on the operation of your “Diatom” system and it will be invaluable in keeping a parasite-free, clean, well-balanced and healthy aquarium."

Ancient knowledge...

 

[robert]

I put up a DIY diatom filter thread here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-diatom-filter.212893/

All the basics are there - and its running in loop-back on the patio - No leaks yet - I'll finish plumbing it in the morning and see how it works.

 

[Kurt Copeland]

I used to have a DE filter 2 decades ago on my FW 55-gallon and I LOVED it. i have been inspired by this thread (you guys are awesome with all of the combined knowledge in this group) and I found this...thoughts?

http://www.pet-discount-supply.com/fish/vortex_diatom_canister_filters-vor00010.htm

 

[Paul B]

I have been telling people about diatom filters for decades. But no one was listening so instead of arguing, I just went and made myself a grilled cheese sandwich

 

[charleslotz]

I use a diatom filter 1x month on a 400 gallon,... I use de and carbon powder ,... It is a great piece of equipment... Only issue I have is it strips the water almost to clean and I use essential elements after diatom filter as a precaution. Of cause this stripping of the water is speculation and observation...

 

[moulton1853]

Sorry this is not about diseases but would a diatom filter strip away the bad stuff found in tap water? I do not have a rodi unit yet and was wondering it a diatom filter would work instead. It would kill 2 birds so to speak.

 

[Harold Green]

I think if diatom filters were capable of removing chemicals they'd advertise the fact. Start with the ro filter. I think you'll find very few hobbyists own a diatom filter compared to owning a ro filter.