Dinoflagellates.... Yet another thread, but an interesting question?

[tvan]

I come from the world of halides and T5s. I don't remember a lot of dino outbreaks. I fired up my 50 gallon after a few years of moth balls, thinking all that stringy stuff must of been a fluke. I chunked on a 40 gallon sump, got my protein skimmer working, started the cycle. I switched on my reefbreeder( led light) it worked. The ATO, check. The heater, check. After a month and a half I noticed the leds were in default mode (low light). Added some purple and red Coraline algae goop and turned up the light. I went to Florida for over a week. (grabbed a quart of gulf water for the bacteria). Came home and growing on the sand and rock was my old friend red to purple strands. I wanted to see if my friend would burn itself out. I added the gulf water and sand and covered for 3 days. The strands turned brown and thinned out, but not gone. And after a couple of weeks with the lights back on the dinos are flourishing. This whole time my sump under ambient light doesn't have any signs of dinos. The systems is empty as far as corals and fish. So the plan is, a few days of darkness, a snail cleanup crew, and keeping my leds romantic for a few weeks. My question: Is it possible that the led lights are responsible for dinoflagellate out breaks?

 

[Dan_P]

I come from the world of halides and T5s. I don't remember a lot of dino outbreaks. I fired up my 50 gallon after a few years of moth balls, thinking all that stringy stuff must of been a fluke. I chunked on a 40 gallon sump, got my protein skimmer working, started the cycle. I switched on my reefbreeder( led light) it worked. The ATO, check. The heater, check. After a month and a half I noticed the leds were in default mode (low light). Added some purple and red Coraline algae goop and turned up the light. I went to Florida for over a week. (grabbed a quart of gulf water for the bacteria). Came home and growing on the sand and rock was my old friend red to purple strands. I wanted to see if my friend would burn itself out. I added the gulf water and sand and covered for 3 days. The strands turned brown and thinned out, but not gone. And after a couple of weeks with the lights back on the dinos are flourishing. This whole time my sump under ambient light doesn't have any signs of dinos. The systems is empty as far as corals and fish. So the plan is, a few days of darkness, a snail cleanup crew, and keeping my leds romantic for a few weeks. My question: Is it possible that the led lights are responsible for dinoflagellate out breaks?

Did you view the organism with a microscope?

The answer is no.

 

[tvan]

No, why? My sub straight in the sump is pristine. The sub straight in the display is over run. I did start the cycle with a mechanical filter with a built in UV. And the dinos still bloomed.

 

[Aquadude1]

I have had dinos on t5 tanks personally. I think its more of when t5s and halide were more popular so were ocean collected live rock and live sand.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Never heard of LED lights being the cause of dinos.
Here are some interesting reads that talk about dinos in our tanks (and how to beat them).

Beating Dinoflagellates: A Complete Guide

I'd like to give my perspective on how I approach dinoflagellates in reef tanks. They can be challenging to treat and release a lot of toxins. I personally dealt with dinos several times in the past, so I've gained a lot of hands-on experience. I've done a lot of research on them, too. Here's...

www.reef2reef.com

Dinoflagellates - What I learned over the years to deal with it

Let me introduce myself, my name is Paulo Scaldaferri, a Brazilian reefer who have been dealing with dinos as a special area of interest: I had it on my own tanks many times before and sometimes for months. This led me to an avid interest of study of those alveolates, including reading many...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[tvan]

I have had dinos on t5 tanks personally. I think its more of when t5s and halide were more popular so were ocean collected live rock and live sand.

Did the dinos bloom before or after a blub change? I know the old blubs changed spectrum and par as they age.

 

[tvan]

Never heard of LED lights being the cause of dinos.
Here are some interesting reads that talk about dinos in our tanks (and how to beat them).

Beating Dinoflagellates: A Complete Guide

I'd like to give my perspective on how I approach dinoflagellates in reef tanks. They can be challenging to treat and release a lot of toxins. I personally dealt with dinos several times in the past, so I've gained a lot of hands-on experience. I've done a lot of research on them, too. Here's...

www.reef2reef.com

Dinoflagellates - What I learned over the years to deal with it

Let me introduce myself, my name is Paulo Scaldaferri, a Brazilian reefer who have been dealing with dinos as a special area of interest: I had it on my own tanks many times before and sometimes for months. This led me to an avid interest of study of those alveolates, including reading many...

www.reef2reef.com

Dinos cause dinos. What causes the bloom? Thanks for the info...

 

[Aquadude1]

Did the dinos bloom before or after a blub change? I know the old blubs changed spectrum and par as they age.

All the tanks I've seen it on were newer. So bulbs were less than 6 months old.

 

[tvan]

All the tanks I've seen it on were newer. So bulbs were less than 6 months old.

Interesting, all I ever got were algae blooms. Julian Sprung in a video on dinos thinks dinoflagellates and Zooxanthellae share common characteristics, ie light. Comparing my sump to my display triggered the question. I'm not worried about the symptom my display is empty, I keep it dark and the bloom subsides. I am worried about what happens when I add coral and turn up the lights.

 

[landlubber]

the lighting game has changed a lot.... but that isn't the only thing.
Dinos weren't as huge a problem when the hobby used rock straight from the ocean. Today many new tanks start off using dry concrete that is devoid of life but appears like base rock and the tank has to struggle through developing the bacteria to fight the uglies new tanks get.
My battle was 2 long, stressful, expensive years and If I were starting a new tank today i'd either be hunting hard for actual ocean rock or searching for a system that is mature for some of their rock.

 

[Aquadude1]

Interesting, all I ever got were algae blooms. Julian Sprung in a video on dinos thinks dinoflagellates and Zooxanthellae share common characteristics, ie light. Comparing my sump to my display triggered the question. I'm not worried about the symptom my display is empty, I keep it dark and the bloom subsides. I am worried about what happens when I add coral and turn up the lights.

Blackouts definitely provide shorterm relief, but at some point light is needed to establish desired colonization of the rock to avoid constantly fighting dinos.

You could add live rock and live sand and slowly over the course of 1 to 2 months turn the lights up.

 

[tvan]

I've added Carib sea live sand, Dr tim's waste away, Helix coralline algae, a quart of gulf salt water and sand. I 've ordered three types of snails. when they arrive I'll uncover the display and leave the lights turned down for a couple of weeks. Or until the dinos are gone. My 40 gallon under ambient room light has no signs of dinos and never has. Which points me back to my question lol.

 

[landlubber]

I've added Carib sea live sand, Dr tim's waste away, Helix coralline algae, a quart of gulf salt water and sand. I 've ordered three types of snails. when they arrive I'll uncover the display and leave the lights turned down for a couple of weeks. Or until the dinos are gone. My 40 gallon under ambient room light has no signs of dinos and never has. Which points me back to my question lol.

dinos are algae and need light to thrive.
are we even sure you have dinos to begin with? a lot of what you're describing could also just be diatoms.
have you taken a specimen under a microscope?

 

[Aquadude1]

I've added Carib sea live sand, Dr tim's waste away, Helix coralline algae, a quart of gulf salt water and sand. I 've ordered three types of snails. when they arrive I'll uncover the display and leave the lights turned down for a couple of weeks. Or until the dinos are gone. My 40 gallon under ambient room light has no signs of dinos and never has. Which points me back to my question lol.

I would crank your lights back up slowly and hopefully they wont come back.

As for the original question, I have personally seen no evidence that leds cause more dinos. That said dinos definitely need a certain amount of light to reach plague proportions.

Maybe others will chime in.

Edit: Carib sea live sand helps maybe establish nitrogen cycle but not prevent dinos. That gulf sand sounds good though imo.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I only had dino's once, it was in my 3 year old softie tank, using an AI Prime, and nitrates were well over 100. All my tanks are started with dry rock, and I do my best to keep parameters as close to zero as possible. One tank has MH lights, the other 4 have led lights.

Based on my own experience, I don't think its leds, or low nutrients, or dry rocks, or new tanks, I don't think anyone really knows

 

[tvan]

I would crank your lights back up slowly and hopefully they wont come back.

As for the original question, I have personally seen no evidence that leds cause more dinos. That said dinos definitely need a certain amount of light to reach plague proportions.

Maybe others will chime in.

Edit: Carib sea live sand helps maybe establish nitrogen cycle but not prevent dinos. That gulf sand sounds good though imo.

Aquadude1 that is the plan, Knock down the bloom, put the clean up crew to work. Bring up the lighting slowly.

 

[Aquadude1]

I only had dino's once, it was in my 3 year old softie tank, using an AI Prime, and nitrates were well over 100. All my tanks are started with dry rock, and I do my best to keep parameters as close to zero as possible. One tank has MH lights, the other 4 have led lights.

Based on my own experience, I don't think its leds, or low nutrients, or dry rocks, or new tanks, I don't think anyone really knows

Just curious, do you know what po4 was?

 

[tvan]

dinos are algae and need light to thrive.
are we even sure you have dinos to begin with? a lot of what you're describing could also just be diatoms.
have you taken a specimen under a microscope?

Pretty sure it's dinoflagellates. Blackout is the only thing that has had any effect on the bloom. The red color is another hint. The only reason I know it's not Cyanobacteria is two chemi clean treatments and no effect. And doesn't blow off rock work.

 

[tvan]

No, not feeding, I had just finished the nitrate cycle. 15 ppm. Dosing "all for one" to replace elements in ro water top off. And provide for coralline algae growth.

 

[landlubber]

Pretty sure it's dinoflagellates. Blackout is the only thing that has had any effect on the bloom. The red color is another hint. The only reason I know it's not Cyanobacteria is two chemi clean treatments and no effect. And doesn't blow off rock work.

those aren't necessarily sure fire methods for id. As a hobbyist that lost a ton of corals and stared at a disgusting tank for over 2 years before eventually overcoming them. I would recommend saving yourself a lot of time and just make sure.