Dinoflagellates.... Yet another thread, but an interesting question?

[tvan]

those aren't necessarily sure fire methods for id. As a hobbyist that lost a ton of corals and stared at a disgusting tank for over 2 years before eventually overcoming them. I would recommend saving yourself a lot of time and just make sure.

In the presence of adequate nutrients and sunlight, an assemblage of living diatoms doubles approximately every 24 hours by asexual multiple fission; the maximum life span of individual cells is about six days. Either way my treatment is the same.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Just curious, do you know what po4 was?

No sorry it was early last year. It must have seemed normal-ish to me as it didn't make an impression on me

 

[Aquadude1]

No sorry it was early last year. It must have seemed normal-ish to me as it didn't make an impression on me

All good.

 

[BubbleAlgaeFarmer]

It’s been my experience that chemiclean causes dinos. Not that it adds dinos, but because it hurts other parts of the biome that keep dinos in check.

 

[tvan]

It’s been my experience that chemiclean causes dinos. Not that it adds dinos, but because it hurts other parts of the biome that keep dinos in check.

Good to know.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I come from the world of halides and T5s. I don't remember a lot of dino outbreaks. I fired up my 50 gallon after a few years of moth balls, thinking all that stringy stuff must of been a fluke. I chunked on a 40 gallon sump, got my protein skimmer working, started the cycle. I switched on my reefbreeder( led light) it worked. The ATO, check. The heater, check. After a month and a half I noticed the leds were in default mode (low light). Added some purple and red Coraline algae goop and turned up the light. I went to Florida for over a week. (grabbed a quart of gulf water for the bacteria). Came home and growing on the sand and rock was my old friend red to purple strands. I wanted to see if my friend would burn itself out. I added the gulf water and sand and covered for 3 days. The strands turned brown and thinned out, but not gone. And after a couple of weeks with the lights back on the dinos are flourishing. This whole time my sump under ambient light doesn't have any signs of dinos. The systems is empty as far as corals and fish. So the plan is, a few days of darkness, a snail cleanup crew, and keeping my leds romantic for a few weeks. My question: Is it possible that the led lights are responsible for dinoflagellate out breaks?

The lights are not the cause of dinos. When we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and Its important though to identify the type of dino for most effective battle.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

 

[tvan]

The lights are not the cause of dinos. When we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and Its important though to identify the type of dino for most effective battle.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

Dinoflagellate cysts cause dinos. My sump with sub straight has zero dino bloom. My display is over run. The difference is led light. I have no live stock, the tank just cycled, I brought up the light to encourage coralline algae... My tank is blacked out, I am leaving it that way until my shipment of snails arrive. Then low light until the bloom passes(thank you Aquadude1). Thank you for your incites.

 

[tvan]

UPDATE:
8 day black out no change.
Added Turbo, Trochus, and Cerith snails.
Adjusted light to 10% all six channels.
Having the patience of a hurricane I started blasting clumps with a turkey baster. I found the sand had crusted so I broke it up. I haven't seen any new dino growth and the snails are busy.
I should have started the cycle with a cleanup crew in hind sight.
FYI:
Among the key components in fertilizer formulations, phosphates and nitrates are indispensable. Phosphates are crucial for root development and energy transfer in plants, while nitrates fuel plant growth through efficient nitrogen delivery.
Source: Decachem.

 

[rtparty]

It isn’t LED lights and dinos were alive and well during the MH/T5 days. Many of just misdiagnosed them. Almost nobody was using microscopes 20 years ago to ID stuff. I would venture to guess that most diatom IDs from 20 years ago were actually sand dwelling dinos. Especially on more established tanks.

No one has ever definitively proven why dinos take hold and over run a system but we have plenty of anecdotal evidence. The fact is you have too much photosynthetic energy on the display tank for the pods and other organisms to keep up with. This is a biome and too much light issue. Your sump doesn’t have anything blooming because there isn’t enough energy to grow the slimes at an out of control pace like the display. You have no fish or coral, turn the lights off for 7 days, and then very, very slowly ramp them back up once everything has had time to find an equilibrium

 

[tvan]

It isn’t LED lights and dinos were alive and well during the MH/T5 days. Many of just misdiagnosed them. Almost nobody was using microscopes 20 years ago to ID stuff. I would venture to guess that most diatom IDs from 20 years ago were actually sand dwelling dinos. Especially on more established tanks.

No one has ever definitively proven why dinos take hold and over run a system but we have plenty of anecdotal evidence. The fact is you have too much photosynthetic energy on the display tank for the pods and other organisms to keep up with. This is a biome and too much light issue. Your sump doesn’t have anything blooming because there isn’t enough energy to grow the slimes at an out of control pace like the display. You have no fish or coral, turn the lights off for 7 days, and then very, very slowly ramp them back up once everything has had time to find an equilibrium

Had my tank dark for 8 days... Last post. Dinos didn't show up until I started ramping up my light... First post.

 

[tvan]

Just a thought, I should have added cleanup crew when I ramped up my leds. And maybe got ahead of the bloom.