DIY supplements. Do the need cleating for bioavailbikity.

[robanister]

Today I had a really interesting conversation with Dong about chelation in diy supplements. Where it will show on icp test but not be available to coral if you don't have a cleat to bind it making it bioavalabe. For example cleated iron is used for plants growth, regular iron wont absorb. Is this a trade secret or just who bla to get you to buy from companies. Also why is this not on the bottle labeled as proprietary blend or such if it is in the bought bottles? Do we believe it is a the ligand that is added for binding or nothing there and the process happens through natural Chelation through amino acids already present in the reef?
Below are some Chelation binders. One we know can't be used with fish!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For this reason, I recommend light chelation, such as ferrous gluconate, as opposed to very strong chelation, which requires being broken to be bioavailable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Individual amino acid provide little chelation, and are no concern.

 

[robanister]

So @Randy Holmes-Farley we are talking about citrate to bind as they are a little better than Amino Acids? And how much would one want to add to a concoction of say iron or mn?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So @Randy Holmes-Farley we are talking about citrate to bind as they are a little better than Amino Acids? And how much would one want to add to a concoction of say iron or mn?

What element are you talking about? It varies, but as I said above, I generally recommend gluconate versions since that is enough chelated to maintain solubility, is not too strongly chelated to make absorption a problem, and are often readily available in food grade. The diy chemicals page lists many of these.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

DIY Chemistry Archive

I thought it would be useful to have an archive of DIY chemistry methods. I'll add to it as things come up. Calcium and Alkalinity DIY method comparison https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/randy-recommended-diy-two-part-recipes.984604/ Three Part using Sodium Hydroxide (including Balling Part...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[robanister]

Ok. I dont have a large chemistry background but i took micro organic chem and such. Ok so I get the glutamate role with mn in the binding, but iron has more than one form ... are you saying the sulfate is the cleat and nothing else needs to be done.... Iron is the element/ sulfate is the cleat.
MN is the element glucanate is the cleat? Maybe I proposed the question wrong. I think you are talking solubility and I'm talking absorbtion? Another way of putting this is like taking b12 cyanocobalamin when methylcobaltin is already preconverted for the body to absorb.... no extra steps by the human body!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think you may be reinventing the wheel. We have considered all of these issues for years.

I use ferrous gluconate. Sulfate is not a chelator, just a simple counter ion.

The chelate (the gluconate) helps the iron and other elements remain soluble and not precipitate out.

I agree that is is less desirable to use very strong chelators. Gluconate is not a strong chelator.

 

[robanister]

I think you may be reinventing the wheel. We have considered all of these issues for years.

I use ferrous gluconate. Sulfate is not a chelator, just a simple counter ion.

The chelate (the gluconate) helps the iron and other elements remain soluble and not precipitate out.

I agree that is is less desirable to use very strong chelators. Gluconate is not a strong chelator.

 

[Kasrift]