Discussion in 'Do It Yourself (DIY)' started by Striike, Mar 5, 2010.

Do I Need Floor Supporting?!?

One of the questions that is inevitably asked in every aquarium chat room, newsgroup and bulletin board is "just how large an aquarium can my...
  1. Rich1987

    Rich1987 Member

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    I also had a 180 on a floor with a basement underneath and after 3 years I had one beam sag about 2 inches so we put in a jack and added a pole.... now my current 750 reefer sits on a concrete slab 8 inches thick... always better to overbuild if you can
     

  2. Huff747

    Huff747 Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks. I've decided even though it's just a 125 its going to go in the basement. Not so much because of the questions on the floor but a number of other things like; how the hardwood will look when it is eventually moved, the kind of awkward way it blocks off the cabinets, and I can't quite get everything I want under the stand with my current equipment and in the basement I can hide the ATO container in a corner (or though a wall to the unfinished portion of the basement) to make room under the stand and that isn't an option here. Plus as my girls hit the teen years I'll probably be spending more time in the basement as they take over the main floor.
     
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  3. m3rcfh

    m3rcfh Member

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    I was wondering if I could get some advice on my situation too... the plan is to keep the DT and sump on the living room as the wife agreed to spend the money if it makes part of the decor...

    The only wall I have to place the tank against makes it go parallel to the floor joists. Luckly, it would be exaclty over the steel beam that goes accross the house. It is a rimmed 75 gallon, with a 20 gallon sump. I got 70lb of (dry) live rock on it.

    I did a quick sketch to represent how it looks... I believe it sits on top of one joist only, directly above the I beam. I got 21/32 OSB subfloor and hardwood floor. 10 year old house. Can't tell for sure whether it sits on one or two joists because I got drywall ceiling on the basement.

    Do you think this is going to be a problem as it sits on one joist only? Or is the beam going to take the load and not let it sag? This thing is not letting me sleep at night, I'm thinking in moving it down to the basement just to be sure.

    Thanks!

    4.jpg

    3.jpg
     
  4. dwwataz

    dwwataz nuttier than a squirrel turd R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Hello. I'm having a 60Lx30Dx24T 180 built. It is going above a cellar. Where I want to put it would be 6" off of 2 load bearing walls (left side and rear). It will be perpendicular to 2 joists 22" apart. Both joists already have support beams. Do you think sistering and or blocking is necessary? Here's a couple pics. Thank you!
    IMG_20180220_220711380.jpg IMG_20180220_220724881.jpg
     
  5. akopley

    akopley Member

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    That looks like it was built for a tank.
     
  6. OldOne14

    OldOne14 Member

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    Extremely informative!!!! Will be saving for reference.
     
  7. kalare

    kalare Active Member Partner Member 2018

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    Looks like it should be fine, but it'd be good to know the length of the steel beam from support to support, the depth and width of the steel beam and the depth and width of the joists. What is the joist spacing?

    Are those photos of the "2 joists"? If so, they look more like beams to me, though I could be wrong as I don't have an overall photo. They sit on steel posts? The beam/joist on the right looks to be rotating and not at a perfect perpendicular to the floor. Since it's all open, I'd personally add some blocking under the location of where the tank is going to go. What are the sizes of all the member here?

    And not to be disrespectful or insulting, however for future reference for all other parties, we should get the correct structural vocab down here. Most framing contractors don't even use the terms correctly and it ends up being extremely confusing when having a conversation. The quick and simple way I can explain it is as follows:

    JOISTS: Horizontal member that supports the plywood or planking of floors and roofs. Usually less that 2" in width and spaced 16-24" on center and is a repeating member (meaning there are lots of them placed side by side, unless your floor space is only 2 feet wide or something). Typically wood.

    BEAMS: Horizontal member that typically supports the joists where a wall is not allowed by architecture. Usually larger, 4" in width or greater and can be flush with the bottom of the joists so you don't see a soffit, or can be much deeper. They will typically span from wall to wall or wall to post or post to post. They may be wood or steel. A beam is NEVER oriented vertically.

    POSTS: Vertical member that supports a beam. NOT horizontal. In homes, typically 4x4 or 6x6. Can also be steel "I" shaped or square/rectangular or round tube.
     
  8. m3rcfh

    m3rcfh Member

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    Thanks, I'm still a little unsettled that it sits on top of one single joist, though. The joists are 2x10, 16" apart. The I beam is 8×5", with supports 12' apart.
     
  9. kalare

    kalare Active Member Partner Member 2018

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    is it unfinished below? You can add some blocking between the joists to support the edges of the stand.
     
  10. Erica-Renee

    Erica-Renee Active Member

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  11. Shadowcat

    Shadowcat Member

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    Planning a very similar build, 100 gallon, 6 foot tank, parallel to the floor joists but centered over a beam below. My thinking is that it should be fine because the weight of the tank will be split , half on one side of the beam, half on the other, effectively halving the weight that each pair of joists will support...............unless there's something I'm missing!!
     
  12. Erica-Renee

    Erica-Renee Active Member

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    What type of beam and how far apart between its supports.... If its a wood beam it could be already at its limits. A Jack post may be needed directly under the middle of the tank if the tank sets close to middle of the beams span and the beam is a load bearing carrying walls and roof ...

    More details would be needed to give any a proper determination ...
     
  13. Finatik

    Finatik FINatik about my Tanks ! R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    What is a "continuous runner" ???
     
  14. Erica-Renee

    Erica-Renee Active Member

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    I think he is refuring to a stand where the bottom makes constant contact with the floor all the way around the tank. But this is kinda misleading.. There will still be more weight on the areas directly under the stands support members. Door areas will have less pressure on the wood members under them . But he is Partly true . it does help distribute the weight to some degree.... Just not much as some would think...
     
  15. Windy

    Windy Active Member

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    What is partly true. A continuous runner will help spread the pressure. Where did you get your engineering degree?
     
  16. Erica-Renee

    Erica-Renee Active Member

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    Ok so you have a upper frame and a lower frame connected by Vertical members at each of the 4 corners. say this structure is 4 feet long. Along the bottom of the lower frame at the 2 ft point is carrying NONE OF THE LOAD... The load from the upper frame is carried down onto each of the corners of the lower frame. The middle section say again at the 2 feet point is not distributing any of the weight from the upper frame .

    But we can agree to disagree
     
  17. Shadowcat

    Shadowcat Member

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    Hello Eric-Renee, nice cat, I have 5.............Home is a Modular. Not a mobile home, but a factory built home delivered and set in sections onsite, on a perimeter concrete foundation with interior 12x12 concrete piers spaced approximately 11-12 feet on center.......never bothered to measure it. Beam is actually a double beam comprised of the two joined sections resting on the concrete piers. Closest pier to the proposed tank location is within two feet, so tank will be set near the end of the beam and close to the supporting pier, straddling it and extending perhaps 30 inches +/_ onto the supporting joists on either side of the beam. I guess the beam is micro lam or a composite, not 2x's.............I had this house built, but that was 25 years ago and some details have faded from memory. Joist span is 11 feet, 16" O.C. and 2x8's I think. Subfloor is 1" OSB topped with 3/4" mahogany. It's crawl space under there and difficult to see or measure things accurately, but this is my best guess based on a recent excursion under the house to see what I had to work with before setting a tank. Tank location will be straddling two sections of the home on the interior, running north-south, not against the perimeter walls, but against a non-load bearing interior wall. Load bearing walls run east- west in this house where the three sections are joined and supported by the perimeter foundation and concrete piers below................That's probably more detail than you'll get from most people..... Because the tank will straddle the beam and split the load between two pairs of joists I can't see roughly 600 pounds per side being an issue, but I don't pretend to be a structural engineer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  18. Erica-Renee

    Erica-Renee Active Member

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    Thanks he is 16 year old Hemilayian Persian our baby..

    ohh its

    Erica - Renee ...
    So the tank will be sitting dead center long ways of a Double Floor lam beam . with 2x8 joist hanging on the beam close to one of the peers .. If this is correct I Do believe it will support the tank .. But There is a chance over time there could be sagging at the end of the beam away from the tank... My opinion its a small chance.. Of course this is going off the image in my head from your description of the situation so its always a guess unless I am on site to get a feel of the whole house or have blue prints. ..

    For the Record I am not a Engineer . I however have extensive knowledge and training in this area.. I own a Home Remodeling business. By Profession i was in Construction management when i did mostly commercial and high rise construction.. NOW Home Renovations and Repairs. ..

    The that is important is there are two factors.. Will The Floor Hold up my tank /// Simple answer to that YES it will. Factor number two will the weight of my tank cause the floor to sag over time... This is the one that gets people into trouble...

    Good Luck
     
  19. Shadowcat

    Shadowcat Member

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    OK, think I muddied the waters just a bit with my description. All load bearing walls, beams and piers in this house run east-west............Tank will be situated north-south, parallel to the joists, but perpendicular to the beam, the center of the tank crossing the beam and straddling it...............Hoped that clarified things a bit.......Guess that n/s, e/w stuff was a bit confusing.........I sited the house on the compass points and I tend to think of things that way, but it can be confusing trying to explain that to someone else..............You may not be an engineer, but clearly you have more experience and knowledge in these areas than most people, myself included.........I'm 65, but smart enough to know what I don't know and always appreciate good advice.............Yes, you're right, most any solid floor will hold any "reasonably" sized tank without collapsing, but outright failure isn't the only potential problem.............7 years ago I set a 125 in a different room of the house, against a non load bearing interior wall, perpendicular to the joists and at the end where they rest on the beam below. There is a basement under that tank and I jacked the floor at two points below the tank prior to filling to alleviate some/most of the stress from a 1500 pound tank. everything is still plumb, level and square and the tank is still there...................all my cats were feral, sick, homeless or just strays. They show up, at deaths door and I take them in. 5 more buried out back that died of old age.

    Thanks for the input.
     
  20. Erica-Renee

    Erica-Renee Active Member

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    Ohh ok.. maybe i misread your previous post..

    since the tank is straddle the beam with sub floor and hard wood flooring to span the joist , this ties them together. my thinking is you will be fine...
    If it were me in this situation . I would run bridging between the floor joist in that area maybe a foot past each end of the tank.. this will further tie those joist together..

    My only further question is the type of hangers used from joist to beam.. Usuelly these are way over rated... but not knowing this and knowing the sub floor has a joint between the two lam beams the hangers would be important to hold up your load ..

    being pre fab adds a level of unknowns to the equasion as well as NOT all laminated beams have the same density rating and this is where its load capacity comes in..

    Short answer is Yes I think you are ok.. WITH Caution .. Its not going to just fall thru the floor or sag over night.. Just watch it any sign of a issue Jump on it...

    Sorry i know its not a real answer but best i can honestly give.

    Ohh if your tanks stand and support carries the load evenly all the way around the tank to floor you will be better off..
     
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