Do you still quarantine fish even if your store does it?

[mcarroll]

I have to respectfully disagree. All my fish come out of Quarantine healthy fat and happy

If your fish come out fat and happy, they it's not a bare minimum setup. (Thinking tangs in a ten-gallon as "typical".)

Voila! No disagreement! :) :) :)

Once again, it's important not to get distracted by "all the pretty treatments" available.

They have their place (predominantly for treatment of demonstrably sick fish), but what you're after is healthy fish that can resist a disease organism when they do bump into one. That is your goal. And the fish doesn't find that resistance within a chain of treatments. (Though treatments can be compatible with that goal if done with care.)

If one's main concern is for one's current fish then one should have equal concern for one's care routine. Healthy fish will be able to resist a chance disease organism brought in with a new fish. It's not impossible to have fish that healthy.

If your fish are living under stressful conditions, are under-nourished, etc, then they are not going to be very resistant.

If that's how your fish are living, then it's a matter of time before the wrong critter gets by QT, gets by tank transfer, and hits your weak fish. (Count how many threads back in the Disease section you have to count before you get to a failed treatment scenario where a pathogen has made it to the display. Regardless of the theoretical capability of QT and treatments, this is the reality. You need healthy fish.)

It's almost a copout to blame the disease or the new fish.

My list of favorite fish-related care links from R2R and around the web:

mcarroll's Favorite Fish Links​

And a selection of two from the list:

• Stress - Its Role in Fish Disease
• Fish Health Management Considerations in Recirculating Aquaculture systems—Part 3: General Recommendations and Problem-Solving Approaches

 

[Shameless_Dood]

True. How often do you QT (observe) at home?

I haven't bought anything in a while, I've been mainly focusing on transitioning to a 150. Typically I QT everything, though there has been some exceptions, and I think if everyone is honest with themselves everyone has made some exceptions at some point. But it only takes that one exception that will burn ya.

I kind of view QT like this, it's not whether or not you are paranoid, it's if you are paranoid enough.

 

[BlueCursor]

I've lost a couple fish in quarantine because of the stress of copper, etc. Now I don't treat them unless they actually show signs of illness.

I get my fish from three different stores. One I put right into my tank because they do a better job of quarantining fish than I do (an outstanding store!), the other two I quarantine.

Years ago I accepted the fact that I cannot keep diseases out of the tank 100%. I can't quarantine snails and treat with copper. I can't treat corals with copper. So anything that needs copper is going to make it into the tank. That is a lot of various diseases. The best way to not have fish die it to keep a healthy tank. The fish will fight off minor ich, and things like that.

Quarantine is mostly to make sure your fish isn't sick! Once you know that, there is no more need for QT.

 

[rich nyc]

So do you guys just automatically treat with copper or what do you use.

 

[Alex23]

I've lost a couple fish in quarantine because of the stress of copper, etc. Now I don't treat them unless they actually show signs of illness.

I get my fish from three different stores. One I put right into my tank because they do a better job of quarantining fish than I do (an outstanding store!), the other two I quarantine.

Years ago I accepted the fact that I cannot keep diseases out of the tank 100%. I can't quarantine snails and treat with copper. I can't treat corals with copper. So anything that needs copper is going to make it into the tank. That is a lot of various diseases. The best way to not have fish die it to keep a healthy tank. The fish will fight off minor ich, and things like that.

Quarantine is mostly to make sure your fish isn't sick! Once you know that, there is no more need for QT.

How does one know the fish is not sick!?

 

[jenreefer]

If your fish come out fat and happy, they it's not a bare minimum setup. (Thinking tangs in a ten-gallon as "typical".)

Voila! No disagreement! :) :) :)

So I guess our disagreement is in the phrase "bare minimum" but maybe we can save that for another discussion. :rolleyes:

 

[andrew james]

With thousands of dollars of livestock at risk in my DT I quarantine everythime regards of where it comes from

 

[mrsaltwaterguy]

I always QT no matter the source. Better to be safe than sorry!

 

[hart24601]

I have never even been in a fish store that didn't plop new arrivals in tanks with other fish let alone QT them with no additions to the tank for several weeks on its own system (aka not plumbed to other tanks).

I guess if I found a fish store that really did a proper QT and observation for a month AND if I believed them I wouldn't have an issue, but I sure don't have any lfs that does that!

 

[Grimreaperz]

Regardless I always try to do the following QT regiment.

Obtain fish.
1week observation
TTM (Tank Transfer Method)
1week observation
Triple dose Prazipro (3-5days)
3 days rest
Triple dose Prazipro (3-5days)
2 weeks observation

I dose Prime and Carbon through out the whole process. Except carbon when doing Prazipro...this is probably overkill but give me peace of mind no parasites are in the tank....

Had a Firefish go through all of this...then 2 weeks in my tank died from getting into the wrong end of a really big bristle worm....I panicked and dosed Prazipro on the tank as I thought it was flukes.....turns out I should have just left him...

I have 2 clowns going through this regime right now...it's a great way to introduce your food and feeding schedules too.

 

[Jizu Puentes]

I dont because I personally know my LFS owner. Whenever I see a fish I like ,I watch it really well, ask the owner how long its been in the system and ask to see it eat. My LFS runs copper in their fish systems constantly and seperates fish that have anything untreatable by copper. I also dont dip coral bought at the LFS but do dip if I recieve them from locals or other shops. I still examine the corals thoroughly though

 

[BlueCursor]

How does one know the fish is not sick!?

Exactly. You can spot certain diseases, others you cannot. That is why a lot of people just treat the fish as if it is sick. Internal parasites cannot be spotted. You just have to assume they are there and treat for them. But the one store I buy from does that for me. Like I said, that is an outstanding and very rare store. Most stores just drop new fish into their tanks and put a price on the tank.

 

[jeffrey holloway]

you must do your QT for all the reasons listed above.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Absolutely. No fish store has the ability to quarantine fish affordably the way they should. The sheer numbers of fish moving through the facility and sharing water make it near impossible to do correctly. It's very cost prohibitive and you should not trust any claims of proper QT. Also, most confuse qt and pre treatment of fish. My definition is that the fish has been treated with copper or cp for a full 30 days at full therapeutic dose AND had 8 days of prazipro treatments (two total).

Absolutely!! I wouldn't trust a QT process done by someone else unless it matches the above. I also think there's much wisdom in this statement: "Also, most confuse qt and pre treatment of fish." Most stores I know that day they QT their fish are really talking about a 2 week observation in a system that is shared by other (potentially sick) fish and into which new arrivals are added even during that observation period. That doesn't qualify as quarantine since quarantine by definition implies isolation.

I have never even been in a fish store that didn't plop new arrivals in tanks with other fish let alone QT them with no additions to the tank for several weeks on its own system (aka not plumbed to other tanks).

I guess if I found a fish store that really did a proper QT and observation for a month AND if I believed them I wouldn't have an issue, but I sure don't have any lfs that does that!

Yep! I keep hoping I'll find someone who I trust to actually do QT effectively, and I'd pay 3 prices for fish that I knew were disease free and healthy. I'm hopeful we'll see that happen eventually, but for now I QT all of my fish... and I absolutely HATE quarantine (I'm an impatient person), but having been through the awful experience of watching almost 20 fish die in 2 weeks from introducing a wrasse with (what I think was) velvet, I'll be sure nothing goes into my tank that hasn't been QT'd with preemptive treatment for velvet, ich, and flukes.

 

[4FordFamily]

Absolutely!! I wouldn't trust a QT process done by someone else unless it matches the above. I also think there's much wisdom in this statement: "Also, most confuse qt and pre treatment of fish." Most stores I know that day they QT their fish are really talking about a 2 week observation in a system that is shared by other (potentially sick) fish and into which new arrivals are added even during that observation period. That doesn't qualify as quarantine since quarantine by definition implies isolation.



Yep! I keep hoping I'll find someone who I trust to actually do QT effectively, and I'd pay 3 prices for fish that I knew were disease free and healthy. I'm hopeful we'll see that happen eventually, but for now I QT all of my fish... and I absolutely HATE quarantine (I'm an impatient person), but having been through the awful experience of watching almost 20 fish die in 2 weeks from introducing a wrasse with (what I think was) velvet, I'll be sure nothing goes into my tank that hasn't been QT'd with preemptive treatment for velvet, ich, and flukes.

I agree we need humblefish to start his biz

 

[FishFishFish]

Is it still necessary to quarantine fish even if your store does it?

I put my fish in the qt to just observe. Is this necessary? I understand for treatment if they have a disease but just for observing?

As a store owner this is a great question... As a general rule it is always advised, if you can, to QT your fish. Just to give yourself the best chance at a successful reef tank. No Quarantine is 100%. But the more precautions you take, generally the better off you will be.

There are precautions that we take that have greatly reduced fish loss and provided us great results. We have 50 years in the business so we have tried many things. If your store is getting transshipped fish then a quarantine is quite possibly the best option at the store. That is one of the reasons we order from a wholesaler that does the transship and quarantine for us.

1) What we do on fish arrival is acclimate the fish. (you should follow this properly at home as well). We have tried drip acclimation and just letting the fish sit in the bags in the aquarium for 20-30 minutes. With our in-house testing we find that our fish loss is the same with just letting the temperature regulate serves just as good as drip acclimation. Now that is not discounting drip acclimation, as that is a perfectly acceptable method as well. We attribute this to our fish vendors water chemistry and ours being close to the same. The further apart the chemistry is the slower you need to acclimate.

2) We then start our fish on a medicated food diet for at least the first 7 days. We use a combo Seachem Metroplex, Focus and Garlic Guard added to thawed frozen spirulina and mysis. This is a low dose (food treatment vs treating tank) so it is easier on the fish during this phase. Its low enough dose that we go ahead and feed all of our fish this medicated food. Now we do not feed this to puffers, eels, & seahorses, etc as they are sensitive to medications.

3) Most LFS will have some food on hand to feed the fish. Ask them to feed the fish so you can see them eat. At our store we turn our fish tags sideways on new fish so we/customer know if the fish have eaten yet. Once they eat we turn the tag back horizontal to let everyone know they are eating now. Don't buy fish with sunken stomachs. This means they have not eaten and are possibly on the decline.

In our store we try to give you every effort to get fish that are as healthy as possible. Even without getting fish wholesaler that has QT their fish we still accept a great deal of fish loss so that you do not have to. That being said giving your fish another week or two in a quarantine tank will give them time to adjust to your tank parameters and give you time to observe any thing going on with your new fish.

 

[SaltEverywhere]

My friend is leaving the hobby and has offered me his fish and coral. He has an established 50 gallon tank with no fish loss or disease. I am wondering about QT of his fish before going in my tank. I am wondering how a disease will appear when his fish are in my QT tank, since these same fish have seemed healthy for years in his tank. Does that happen?

 

[melypr1985]

My friend is leaving the hobby and has offered me his fish and coral. He has an established 50 gallon tank with no fish loss or disease. I am wondering about QT of his fish before going in my tank. I am wondering how a disease will appear when his fish are in my QT tank, since these same fish have seemed healthy for years in his tank. Does that happen?

typically the stress of the move will force anything lurking to show itself while in QT. I absolutely suggest you QT all incoming fish no matter what.

 

[mcarroll]

The QT
If you have good, large, homey QT facilities, then more observation time is rarely a bad thing.
(You don't want an extended time in a small QT if at all possible.)

But when coming from an established system like that, your odds of having problems do go down dramatically vs getting fish sight-unseen from some online place, for example. If catching and transport can be made with minimal stress (this is a big, open question....catching can go very much either way...handling can be a source of accidents too....much care must be taken.) it will be a huge benefit to the whole experience. (There are ways.)

So what if you avoid QT due to the known history of the fish?

The Risk
The risk would be that one (some/all) of your fish or his fish are carriers of something. You can assume it's anything you want, because it's possible.

Carrier status is part of their (successful) immune response to an infection, but it means (in cases like ich, maybe all pathogens...I don't know) that they are actually a repository for the infestation until it's totally cleared up, yet it doesn't significantly affect them.

Here's Why To Worry
The reason to worry about that (or not) is whether the opposing population of fish is healthy (or not).

How healthy fish are is a matter of how little daily stress you're asking them to put up with and how much live- or near-live food you're feeding them.

Added stress + non-live, processed, dried foods diminish their immune system.

Lowered stress + live foods boost their immune system.

For example...

If you're feeding your fish nothing but flake foods, which is kind of the opposite of live food, then I'd QT and start feeding both populations better before mixing them. No question.​

Something live, whole-frozen or at least probiotic should be their staple diet.

If there's anyway you can ammend their feeding regime for a few months before moving them, you might consider doing nothing but transferring them. Health will literally be dripping from their fishy little pores by that time.

This doc really covers all the bases:

Circular 919/FA005: Stress - Its Role in Fish Disease​

If you have time and the ability to address everything on that list before bringing them home (nothing too crazy), you're virtually guaranteed success.

Just try not to rush anything along the way if you can help it! :)

 

[elfda]

They hold their salinity low, us copper and uv. They keep the bad stuff suppressed.

I can confirm that PetCos keep the salinity low (corporate's acceptable range is 1.017-1.022). Copper is not permitted, ever, and UV is not included in the Marineland rigs they have set up.

Most PetCos do not QT at all, and do not have hospital tanks.

(Terrestrial animals get vet care within 24 hours of ill health being noticed. Aquatic life, aside from the jerk red-earred sliders, not so much. ...which is extra weird, from a business standpoint, since many marine fish cost more than those balls of rage in a shell)

So... quarantine, quarantine, quarantine!

No matter who it's from!
I quarantine my snakes for a month, even when they come from a great breeder or a close friend.